Trouble introducing new cat

pam10144

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Hi all,
I am at my wits end, but it has only been a week. We rescued a 6 year old girl in September and just rescued a 7 month old by last week. I did not think our "old" cat would be that attached to us, nor hate cates as much as she does. We kept the kitten apart from her for 3 full days and then allowed them to see each other through gate. He has no attacking tendancies, but wants to play with her. She hisses and growls at him, and will chase him away. We have been allowing them free roam of the house together during the day while we are here, but the kitten goes downstairs and older cat upstairs when we are out and at night. I am not sure if we jumped the gun in trying to get them introduced or what. And I have no idea what to do. Both cats are very sweet on their own. And the kitten will immediately lie down when she even looks at him, so I think he knows she is in charge. She just doesn't seem to be letting him in. Am I crazy, or are we rushing things way too much. Please help cat experts... first time having two!
Pam the Panicked
 

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When I introduced my 7yo to a 2 1/2yo, I kept the 2 1/2yo in a separate room for a week. I know people for whom it takes much longer. The introductions were very gradual, allowing them to smell each other through the door, providing a t-shirt with the others' scent on it, etc... I suspect introducing an adult to a kitten could possibly be harder; youngsters are very active and adults often are not (and get annoyed by the young ones' antics).

If it were me, I'd start over and isolate the kitten in her own room...for however long it takes. Make sure you give equal time to both. I also talked with my resident cat constantly about the new cat and tried to get her interested and curious.

3 days is not long at all. Patience. :-)
 

Mamanyt1953

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Yeah...three days was probably not long enough. And some cat introductions take weeks. A few take months, but are very successful in the end. Time and patience are your friends on this, and you can't go faster than the most reluctant cat, in this case, your girl. HOWEVER, all is not lost! With cats, you get a do-over. Here are some articles that can help guide you through this:

How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction – TheCatSite Articles
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide – TheCatSite Articles
Introducing Cats To Cats – TheCatSite Articles
 
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pam10144

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Thank you both. We are back to step one with them separate completely. We will try again in introducing through a screen to see if she stops hissing at him. We will need to keep them separated until she calms down I guess. We just keep plugging along. Both are so loving, we really want them to work out... even if they aren't best friends.
 

calicosrspecial

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Hi all,
I am at my wits end, but it has only been a week. We rescued a 6 year old girl in September and just rescued a 7 month old by last week. I did not think our "old" cat would be that attached to us, nor hate cates as much as she does. We kept the kitten apart from her for 3 full days and then allowed them to see each other through gate. He has no attacking tendancies, but wants to play with her. She hisses and growls at him, and will chase him away. We have been allowing them free roam of the house together during the day while we are here, but the kitten goes downstairs and older cat upstairs when we are out and at night. I am not sure if we jumped the gun in trying to get them introduced or what. And I have no idea what to do. Both cats are very sweet on their own. And the kitten will immediately lie down when she even looks at him, so I think he knows she is in charge. She just doesn't seem to be letting him in. Am I crazy, or are we rushing things way too much. Please help cat experts... first time having two!
Pam the Panicked
Yes, I would just take it slow. The key is to make positive associations (using food) and making positive encounters while minimizing or avoiding negative encounters. So as to build trust and then we build each cat's confidence via Play, Food, Height and Love as a confident cat is more to accept and be accepted.

The "resident/existing" cat is more likely to have the bigger challenge as it is "their" territory being "invaded". So even though she has only been there for a few months she has territory though her confidence in owning that territory is still being developed.

"We kept the kitten apart from her for 3 full days" - This is just not long enough. For now, I would keep their contact limited and use food and scent to make a positive association.

"and then allowed them to see each other through gate." - This is probably too fast.

"He has no attacking tendancies, but wants to play with her." - That is great. It will be very helpful, in intro'ing them.

"She hisses and growls at him, and will chase him away." - Totally expected as it is "her territory" being "invaded". She doesn;t know if he is a physical threat, a threat to her food or water or litter box, etc. So we need to slowing make positive associations using food and making every encounters between them as positive s possible.

"We have been allowing them free roam of the house together during the day while we are here" - Ok, I probably would try to limit that to make sure their encounters are as positive as possible. Is there a room he can be in for now?

"but the kitten goes downstairs and older cat upstairs when we are out and at night." - great. Maybe we can keep the boy downstairs? Is there a place we can then feed them together separated by a door?

"I am not sure if we jumped the gun in trying to get them introduced or what." - Maybe a little but it is fine, not a big deal. We can work through that.

And I have no idea what to do. Both cats are very sweet on their own.

"And the kitten will immediately lie down when she even looks at him, so I think he knows she is in charge." - That is very positive and will be helpful i the intro process.

" She just doesn't seem to be letting him in." - Understandably as it is her territory being "invaded" and she is worried about her safety, her food, etc. Totally normal.

"Am I crazy, or are we rushing things way too much." - You are not crazy, it is a bit rushed. But totally fixable.

"Please help cat experts... first time having two!" - happy to help.

We'll want to figure out where we can feed them on opposite sides of a closed door.

And in the meantime, step up play with both, feed treats or a meal after, give them a lot of love, give them cat trees, warm and comfy bedding, scratching posts. And stay calm and confident around them as cats take on our emotions.

We'll want to build their confidence through Play, Food, Height and Love, make positive associations feeding on opposite sides of a closed door for now, and try to make every encounter as positive as possible reassuring the cats if they seem agitated and let them know it is ok nd use distraction of a toy or treat if one is too focused on the other.

Intros can take a month to a year depending on the cats and the effort etc. I don't read any issues in your post. I am not worried. Let's get them intro'd. :)

Feel free to ask any questions or for clarification anytime. Thank you for saving two cats!! :)
 

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I've done a few cat intros and an adult cat and a kitten have been the least challenging for me. It will happen! Above advice is spot on and works. Have no fear :).
 

Mamanyt1953

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And females are more territorial than males. Their instinct is to defend the home of future kittens. While spaying prevents kittens, or even seeking to have them, that instinct has to do with thousands and thousands of years of rearing families, and nothing to do with the presence or absence of ovaries.
 
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pam10144

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And females are more territorial than males. Their instinct is to defend the home of future kittens. While spaying prevents kittens, or even seeking to have them, that instinct has to do with thousands and thousands of years of rearing families, and nothing to do with the presence or absence of ovaries.
Ugh... that is tough to hear. I can understand that, but I am really hoping that she settles down sooner than later. We are back to the start in keeping them apart and will slowly introduce...
 

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I agree with all that was said above and keep in m ind that ... hissing and growling is completely normal at the beginning ... the older cats set boundaries and that doesn't mean they will hate each other for all eternity ... I theorize that cats have to learn each other's cues and body language and that communication gets a lot easier with time when they have figured out how to communicate ... take it slow ... let them see each other and swap their scents ... if they want to avoid each other for some time ... let them ... don't punish anyone for things like swatting, head bops or hissing - cats tell each other " no" just like we do and that is ok ... cats kind of know when they are facing grumpy discipline or outright aggression ... if both have their own. territory for now ... one upstairs and one downstairs with occasional overlap... that is a good start ... and no worries about the female thing ... my two girls seem to have no issues with other cats ... they have some they like more than others but ... they live together very peacefully 2 girls and 3 boys at the moment
 

pearl99

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I have 3 females and a boy, and the boy (6 years) and the youngest girl (2 years) have acted the same in the last 2 intros of 2 female senior cats (one senior is now 13 years, and the other is now 14 years.) The 2 youngest are buddies, the rest of the interactions between the others is tolerating with still some hissing if too close. That is fine with me.
Females can depend partly on their personality also.
Following the steps at the slowest cat's speed is key.
 

calicosrspecial

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Ugh... that is tough to hear. I can understand that, but I am really hoping that she settles down sooner than later. We are back to the start in keeping them apart and will slowly introduce...
Don't worry. What she is doing is totally normal and not at all a real issue. And the fact the boy is so good and shows respect is really important and good.

I am not at all worried about your situation. They are going to be fine. I am not yet sure how long it will take but I am like 99.999% confident all will be well.

There is so much nuance that I will point out to you as we go along that will show you where the confidence comes from.

Just keep the basic principles in mind:

Positive Association - food so if they are eating near each other it is something good with the other cat and it makes a positive association

Positive Encounter - The more positive the encoutners the more trust is built. So if he is showing her he is not a threat, tc she will learn to trust

Building Confidence through Play, Food, Height and Love - a confident cat is more likely to accept and be accepted. A confident cat knows they own the territory and then can share.

I do want to understand the logistics. Where he will be, where she will be etc. Makes sure she has the most territory she had before. We want to reduce the "change" in her life. So we want her life to be as much the same as it was before him. And then we will show her that he doesn't mean to be a negative or a threat or a risk to her food etc.

I have intro'd cats that have drawn blood, really fought, etc. Your cats are nowhere near that. Your situation is typical of normal intros. We'll be fine.
 
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pam10144

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For all my wonderful experts something different tonight...
I took Bean downstairs (the kitten) where he stays at night and spend some time with him. He slept on my lap. He's been pretty happy to be shuffled back and forth between 2 closed off locations so he is separate from Penny, the 6 year old. When I came back upstairs Penny greeted me and while bending down and patting me, she started sniffing my pants and hissed. I know this is from his sent all over them, but then she went back to sniffing and finally ate her food.

At this point we were about 3 feet from the door to the downstairs and Bean let out a little meow. Before she could do anything, I gave her a couple of treats and patted her and gave her a few more treats. She then went to the door, sniffed, hissed and one growl. She turned and looked at me and came back... I waited a minute and then patted and gave treats again and put a couple on the floor 2 feet from the door. She went, ate them and then took off.

I am not sure if this is progress or not. We are approaching 2 weeks of behind the door time (with 2 stupid days of mingling on my part)

Would love your advice if we are going in the right direction or not... I would love to get them in sight and in the same areas sometime in the near future. But I just don't know if they will mesh..

Thanks all!!
 
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pam10144

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She has also recognized the upstairs door this morning and hissed at that. Very discouraged....
 

Mamanyt1953

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It certainly isn't out of the range of normal, to tell you the truth. At some point, you'll want to put Penny in the basement, and allow the kitten full run of the house for a couple of hours (with supervision). This mingles the scents of both cats everywhere, and makes it easier in the long run. You can also buy a couple of baby gates and stack them in the doorway, leaving the door opened, later on. I like the ones that are a mesh, like chain link fencing, but plastic (or pvc or something). Even fairly young kittens can't get through it, and with one on top of the other, no one can jump over.

I know it seems like a long time, but it really isn't, especially since they have to overcome that earlier error. And don't beat yourself up over that. They can, and almost certainly will, progress, if slowly.
 

calicosrspecial

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For all my wonderful experts something different tonight...
I took Bean downstairs (the kitten) where he stays at night and spend some time with him. He slept on my lap. He's been pretty happy to be shuffled back and forth between 2 closed off locations so he is separate from Penny, the 6 year old. When I came back upstairs Penny greeted me and while bending down and patting me, she started sniffing my pants and hissed. I know this is from his sent all over them, but then she went back to sniffing and finally ate her food.

At this point we were about 3 feet from the door to the downstairs and Bean let out a little meow. Before she could do anything, I gave her a couple of treats and patted her and gave her a few more treats. She then went to the door, sniffed, hissed and one growl. She turned and looked at me and came back... I waited a minute and then patted and gave treats again and put a couple on the floor 2 feet from the door. She went, ate them and then took off.

I am not sure if this is progress or not. We are approaching 2 weeks of behind the door time (with 2 stupid days of mingling on my part)

Would love your advice if we are going in the right direction or not... I would love to get them in sight and in the same areas sometime in the near future. But I just don't know if they will mesh..

Thanks all!!
"I took Bean downstairs (the kitten) where he stays at night and spend some time with him. He slept on my lap." - Awwwwwwwww, so sweet.

"He's been pretty happy to be shuffled back and forth between 2 closed off locations so he is separate from Penny, the 6 year old." - great.

" When I came back upstairs Penny greeted me and while bending down and patting me, she started sniffing my pants and hissed." - Yes, totally normal. She doesn't totally trust the scent of that "other" cat yet. Totally normal. That is why we feed on each side of a closed door to being the process.

" I know this is from his sent all over them" - Exactly correct.

" but then she went back to sniffing and finally ate her food." - PERFECT!!! Positive associaiton, the exact right thing to do!!!

"At this point we were about 3 feet from the door to the downstairs and Bean let out a little meow." - Yep, he knew you were there.

"Before she could do anything, I gave her a couple of treats and patted her and gave her a few more treats." - Perfect, the exact right thing to do to make a positive association.

"She then went to the door, sniffed, hissed and one growl." - Normal and she is telling Bean "don't try anything".

" She turned and looked at me and came back... I waited a minute and then patted and gave treats again and put a couple on the floor 2 feet from the door. She went, ate them and then took off." - Perfect!! The exact right thing to do. Positive association, positive encounter.

"I am not sure if this is progress or not." - Progress. Totally normal. Actually went really well. This is why we do what we do. To let her know that that "other cat" is fine, is positive, not a threat. Like dating or a new roommate it takes time to build trust.

"We are approaching 2 weeks of behind the door time" - That is a very short amount of time.

" (with 2 stupid days of mingling on my part)" NOT STUPID. PLEASE do not be hard on yourself. All is fine. I am not at all worried. In fact, that encounter you were very smart and did a PERFECT job with them!!! You acted like a pro!! GREAT job!!!

"Would love your advice if we are going in the right direction or not..." - You are on the right direction.

" I would love to get them in sight and in the same areas sometime in the near future." - Me too BUT we need to build trust between them to get there. So we have to follow the process. The BIGGEST mistake I see is rushed intros which take longer to resolve. If you do it right they will be intro'd quicker.

"But I just don't know if they will mesh." - I read no reason why they will not. It is not a question of "IF" at this point to me but just "WHEN".

I will walk you through every step to ensure success. I am not at all worried about your situation.

Keep up the great work and ask anything anytime. Just keep feeding on opposite sides of the closed door. We will do some scent swapping soon. Also, keep building her confidence through Play, Food, Height and Love (safely).
 
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pam10144

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Just an update: we continue the cat salsa, switching between rooms. Bean is limited to the finished basement or the 2 room office. Penny roams the rest of the house including the rooms he has been in.
She seems to be reacting a lot less to his scent and noise and seems more curious, I fear I am setting myself up for shock when they do meet face to face (behind gates) that things will go smoother than 2 weeks ago.

she has no really responded to his scent in a few days. She is definitely curious as to what is behind the door. We are exhausted but thankful we have the room to spread them out and the time to work from home to give each an entire day with a human and not alone except at night.

Not sure where to go from here... thoughts or timelines from my experts???
 

calicosrspecial

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Just an update: we continue the cat salsa, switching between rooms. Bean is limited to the finished basement or the 2 room office. Penny roams the rest of the house including the rooms he has been in.
She seems to be reacting a lot less to his scent and noise and seems more curious, I fear I am setting myself up for shock when they do meet face to face (behind gates) that things will go smoother than 2 weeks ago.

she has no really responded to his scent in a few days. She is definitely curious as to what is behind the door. We are exhausted but thankful we have the room to spread them out and the time to work from home to give each an entire day with a human and not alone except at night.

Not sure where to go from here... thoughts or timelines from my experts???
Great work.

"I fear I am setting myself up for shock when they do meet face to face (behind gates) that things will go smoother than 2 weeks ago." - There will be a negative reaction when they see each other (hissing, etc) which is totally normal but we need to think about how we distract from that negativity. So work on distraction techniques, using a toy, using food, using words, etc. If you get a cat to look away in a negative situation it is a positive. Then we reassure them.

We will want to have a sheet or blanket to slowly give some visual when the time comes. We will have to think about the logistics on moving to the next step (which is probably a week from now).

"she has no really responded to his scent in a few days." - Great. Trust and positive association is starting to take hold.

"She is definitely curious as to what is behind the door." - Absolutely. Look at her body language to see how she is

" We are exhausted but thankful we have the room to spread them out and the time to work from home to give each an entire day with a human and not alone except at night." - You are doing great. You don't have to constantly be engaged with them. just make them happy, comfortable and build that confidence through Play, Food, Height and Love (safely) and make those positive associations. And try to make every encounter as positive as possible.

Let's start planning how we are going to start visual in 10 days or so. So gates they can't jump but you can get access to and fro and a blanket that we can hang on those and slowly lift up as needed.

Also, work on distraction techniques - using a toy, food or treats, words. So when we get visual you can get them to focus on something other than the other cat.

Ask anything anytime and keep up the great work and have a great and safe Thanksgiving.
 
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pam10144

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Same info different day. Penny was caught hissing and growling at his door this morning for the first time in a week. Not sure why or if we should still attempt the gate since it has been three weeks and we are struggling to keep up the back and forth.

Help cat experts!!!!
 

calicosrspecial

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Same info different day. Penny was caught hissing and growling at his door this morning for the first time in a week. Not sure why or if we should still attempt the gate since it has been three weeks and we are struggling to keep up the back and forth.

Help cat experts!!!!
That is normal. No idea what was going on? I am guessing Bean was sticking his foot out from under the door or making noises, etc.

We do want to keep those encounters by the door as "controlled" as possible so a human can distract and turn a potential negative into a positive. Reassuring and distracting is very helpful.

Yes, we will be going forward with the gate interactions. Do you have a good idea of how you will do this? Baby gates (stacked) with a blanket hanging from the top is best. It is a little hard to get in and out etc but we'll figure it out. We'll probably want to keep Bean in the room with the baby gates full time as consistency is helpful. Cats do not like change so the more stability we can provide the better.

Hang in there, all is normal.
 
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pam10144

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Hi! Thanks for the reply.
Yes we have 2 gates and plenty of blankets. I know the gates are a pain, but I know it is not the whole day, so not a problem. Opening and shutting the door is easier of course. But we plan to stack the gates and hang around there so that we can see what is going on. I figure we need to time it so that Penny is around (she spends most of the day asleep on my bed) or the whole gate this is useless, as she won't be seeing him.

How long do we allow them to "see" each other per day? How do we start?

It sounds to me like we put up the gates with just a hint at the floor of open room so they can see but not directly. Then gradually move up the blanket?

Sorry for all the dumb questions.... I am just so new to this. Tyson was my first ever cat and I loved him for 13 years. So having a new one, Penny, to get used to and now Bean has been hard. I won't lie and say this is easy and we are doing just fine and this is a piece of cake. It is stressful and feels never ending (much like 2020) but we are doing ok and really willing to try to make it work. I am blessed to have a husband that is willing to work with me too. We all need someone to support our crazy...

Thanks all... Much appreciated help!
 
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