I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

Buffster7

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Very wonderful. That is just heartwarming.
When you say you add the Vine to their coats, where do you put it?
With Gracie I have the multi-tier crate you used and am in the stage of having it out in the house by the glass patio door for a good portion of the day and my Mooshoo and Waffles (I've begun to refer to the two of them as Moofles) free in the house. But when starting the time together not being contained I'd like to have some Bach's on hand- whichever formula is called for- just in case.
I just part their fur and rub it into their skin - sometimes at the nape of their neck, but really wherever I can get it. They'll usually try to lick it off, which is fine. I've heard to rub it in their ears or paws, but my guys don't tolerate that, so I just do it on their skin elsewhere. It doesn't hurt my feelings that they try to lick it off, either - just helping me do the job. ;)

Since both Finn and Charlie are alpha males, I use Vine which is good for calming down dominant personalities. Holly is the other one that I noticed a difference with. All I have left is Chicory, so I'm using that until my Vine arrives. Depending on the issues yours have, whether it's fear or aggression or lack of confidence - the ones you need may be different. Here's a link that lists them out. Vine was recommended to my by customer service when I called:
Dr Bach's system of 38 flower remedies

And...Moofles - I love it!!! :lol: How is Gracie doing??And how are Moofles dealing so far?
 

pearl99

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Dr Bach's system of 38 flower remedies

And...Moofles - I love it!!! :lol: How is Gracie doing??And how are Moofles dealing so far?
Yeah I have to read the list to see what might apply. I've used Rescue Remedy, Vine and Rock Rose in the past- not with these cats, with other situations.
Gracie is doing great. She loves loves scratches, and lap sitting. She's hardly reacting to Moofles. Waffles hardly reacts to her, and went to the gate for a nose greeting when Gracie stuck her little face in the gate but then backed off. Moo has had some hisses and growls when she walks up to Gracie in the cage or behind the gates, but no one is posturing, or raising hackles, or fuzzing tails.
Gracie being a Siamese is VERY vocal. She's funny. She's playful, is eating well.
I've been scent and room swapping in addition to the cage (which I love!!!) and the hallway stacked gates.
She has her vet appt. tomorrow.
I guess with Gracie the three will be Groofles. My daughter and I were thinking of the combinations, and also had Wooshu, Waffloo. We like Moofles.
 
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Buffster7

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Yeah I have to read the list to see what might apply. I've used Rescue Remedy, Vine and Rock Rose in the past- not with these cats, with other situations.
Gracie is doing great. She loves loves scratches, and lap sitting. She's hardly reacting to Moofles. Waffles hardly reacts to her, and went to the gate for a nose greeting when Gracie stuck her little face in the gate but then backed off. Moo has had some hisses and growls when she walks up to Gracie in the cage or behind the gates, but no one is posturing, or raising hackles, or fuzzing tails.
Gracie being a Siamese is VERY vocal. She's funny. She's playful, is eating well.
I've been scent and room swapping in addition to the cage (which I love!!!) and the hallway stacked gates.
She has her vet appt. tomorrow.
I guess with Gracie the three will be Groofles. My daughter and I were thinking of the combinations, and also had Wooshu, Waffloo. We like Moofles.
I'm all grins here - this is all great news! Laughing at "Groofles" - whatever you decide, Moofles needs to stay! Please tag me if/when you post more pics. I'm not able to keep up with the site as much as I'd like, but I don't want to miss updates on your gang! :heartshape:
 

pearl99

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I'm all grins here - this is all great news! Laughing at "Groofles" - whatever you decide, Moofles needs to stay! Please tag me if/when you post more pics. I'm not able to keep up with the site as much as I'd like, but I don't want to miss updates on your gang! :heartshape:
Will tag! I'll wait a bit till I get to the in-the-same-room-loose stage, to have more to report.
 

walli

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question about vine: do you buy it from the bach site or can you get it from Chewy?
also it seems to be a human formula, how much do. you put on the kitties?
I think this may be a good thing for Joey
 

Buffster7

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question about vine: do you buy it from the bach site or can you get it from Chewy?
also it seems to be a human formula, how much do. you put on the kitties?
I think this may be a good thing for Joey
I order it from Amazon. I notice it's getting difficult to find. I think Chewy only sells Bach's Rescue Remedy and not the individual ones. You can also get it from directlyfromnature.com for $18 as opposed to the $9 I've gotten it off Amazon. However, the last two orders have taken f o r e v e r to get here, so I nearly ordered from directlyfromnature just because I wouldn't have to wait for two weeks. I did go ahead and order 3 bottles from the Bach Centre in the UK - you can't get the alcohol-free versions in the US that I've been able to find. Have to order alcohol-free from the UK. Just in case you want to add it to food, and I want that option.

I was putting an entire dropper on their skin -really about 3/4 a dropper - which is why I ran out so fast! :lol: They say you really only need a couple drops. I think it's one of those things that works for some cats and not for others, but I have always noticed a difference with Charlie. Vine and Holly are the two that I see the most noticeable results with. I don't know that Finn responds to it as much as Charlie does - I suspect he just responds to Charlie being more relaxed.
 

walli

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Hey thanks for the info, I am going to try it.
I started Joey on a super high quality CBD and wouldn't you know it
I went back to the store and they didn't have that brand, all others have THC
so I'm waiting for it to come in, I'm giving him some Hemp CBD now, I have to give him
more of it and I can really see the difference in Joey, Learned a lot about CBD through all this!
He is starting to show some of his old habits! Not bad but I can see it.

I think I will put it on his skin so I won't worry about the alcohol for now.
 

Buffster7

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Hey thanks for the info, I am going to try it.
I started Joey on a super high quality CBD and wouldn't you know it
I went back to the store and they didn't have that brand, all others have THC
so I'm waiting for it to come in, I'm giving him some Hemp CBD now, I have to give him
more of it and I can really see the difference in Joey, Learned a lot about CBD through all this!
He is starting to show some of his old habits! Not bad but I can see it.

I think I will put it on his skin so I won't worry about the alcohol for now.
Well, I don't know that it will be as effective as CBD oil, but perhaps as a supplement to it? I've been using CBD oil and I've never really noticed a difference with it with my guys, but then it might be one of those things that I wouldn't notice until, like you, I ran out.

As for the Bach's, I notice a distinct difference with Charlie. Honestly, I don't know that I notice as much of a difference in Finn - I assumed he was responding to Charlie's more chilled-out state.

Today, however, he has been a real pill (Finn). Charlie has backed way way down And Finn is now constantly picking on Charlie. I'm picking up Charlie's fur from the carpet. What I can't figure out is if Finn is challenging him, or if he just doesn't know how to play appropriately? Just tonight they were chasing each other around the house while I was getting dinner, and it's like Finn gets over-excited and pounces Charlie and starts biting - Charlie starts yelping, and when it continued I looked up in time to see Charlie escape And Finn hot on his tail with a clump of fur flying off Charlie's back. I've also seen Finn biting at Charlie's butt several times today. Charlie isn't fighting back at all, so maybe I should back off the Bach's. Finn, however? Unfazed. He seems to be immune to anything and everything I add to his food or body. I hope that if you see a response with the CBD with Joey, that you'll also see a response with the Bach's!

As for the CBD - are we supposed to stay away from the oil with THC in it? Is that what's called the full-spectrum oil? I think the one I've been giving them is the full spectrum. :oops: Is that harmful for them?
 

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The oils with THC are only available in states that allow it. If you are ordering online, most likely it is just hemp based with no THC. I order from Charlotte's Web and there is no THC, but there are different strengths. I use both the 9mg and the 17 mg for different cats. For my cat that sprays and my other cat that has aggressive tendencies, I use the 17 mg. For 3 others, I am using it for arthritis and they do well on the 9mg.
 

Buffster7

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The oils with THC are only available in states that allow it. If you are ordering online, most likely it is just hemp based with no THC. I order from Charlotte's Web and there is no THC, but there are different strengths. I use both the 9mg and the 17 mg for different cats. For my cat that sprays and my other cat that has aggressive tendencies, I use the 17 mg. For 3 others, I am using it for arthritis and they do well on the 9mg.
Okay, thank you! I think I'm using the 17 mg. I've never really been able to tell a difference with them, but I know it's been said to help with a lot of things including arthritis in Charlie and IBD in Finn. Is it possible to use too much? I've been putting 3 drops in each meal and then a drop on their snack when they get one.

Also, does wind make cats a little crazy? We had high winds yesterday and I don't know if that's what got Finn going, but he was CRAZY. Constantly challenging Charlie and pulling out his fur:
Charlie hair.jpg


I also noticed a couple times when I picked him up, he was all claws and was teething me - not biting, but putting his teeth on my and holding back. Then he would attack one of his toys, bunny kick it, and bite the heck out of it with a wild look in his eye. He was so nutso with the 'attacks' on Charlie, that Charlie wouldn't even come to bed last night. Made me sad when I woke up at 2 am and went looking for him and he was nowhere to be found. I had to leave the house yesterday for several hours, and it was so bad that I separated them and put Finn in my room when I left the house. Can't figure out if this is Finn challenging Charlie's alpha status, or if it was just a change of weather thing. Are the clumps of hair I'm finding around the house normal, or is that a sign that Charlie is now being bullied?
 

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The change in weather and cooler temps , along with wind makes my kitties have the zoomies. They’ve all been playful and frisky. Finn could be just a bit wild from that and that’s causing the activity but that is a small chunk of fur. Is it pulled out? Any chance it’s shed or pulled out by Charlie grooming a mat? Can you brush Charlie to see? Maybe Finn is innocent? Lol
 

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I only give the CBD 2x a day. For arthritis I am only using the 9mg and give 2-3 drops 2x a day. Maybe it is a bit too much since you are using the 17 mg.

The fur clumps could be rough play or challenging attempts by Finn. It's hard to tell unless you see it in person. My cats sometimes play rough and I will find clumps of fur. Yet it's not a daily occurrence.

The weather can upset cats. You never know if Finn is frightened by the winds having lived outside. My 3 feral boys cannot stand the wind at all. They have been inside for almost 2 years and still hide during bad weather just like they did when they lived outside.

Hopefully Finn will settle down again. Time outs for him are necessary so he can learn that his behavior is unacceptable. Also since he seems to have so much energy, does he get some play time that helps to wear him out?
 

Buffster7

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Thanks, ladies. Last night I heard Charlie yelping which is always a sign of a tussle. I was making dinner. The yelping didn't stop, though, so I went to investigate just in time to see Charlie finally break free from Finn and run out the room with Finn hot on his tail and chunks of fur flying off of Charlie.

The fur I'm finding isn't huge chunks, but it is pulled out and not just shed, with small pieces of skin/follicle attached. I think sometimes it's just play that gets out of hand, but it's getting to the point that Charlie can't lay down to relax at all And Finn walks over to him and either pounces or drops his head, and starts circling him. The pouncing I think of as play, but the head drop with ears back and circling feels a bit more like a challenge? But I just don't know.

Is it pulled out? Any chance it’s shed or pulled out by Charlie grooming a mat? Can you brush Charlie to see? Maybe Finn is innocent? Lol
Ha! No, it's definitely Finn. Charlie isn't prone to mats, has never had them before, and this fur on the floor is definitely the result of tussles. I just can't figure out how to distinguish between tussles and challenges.
Time outs for him are necessary so he can learn that his behavior is unacceptable. Also since he seems to have so much energy, does he get some play time that helps to wear him out?
How does one do a time-out? Do I put him in a separate room? And for how long?
He's definitely not getting enough play time. I'm in the midst of prep for final exams and the next 2 weeks will be a race to the finish line, very busy. AND - when I play, they both tend to want to join in, which ends in competition and a tussle, so our play sessions are invariably cut short. So Finn definitely needs more stimulation. I hoped having his own cat tree would help him feel settled and 'part of the pack', but I have yet to see him use it. Only Charlie uses it.
 

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For time outs, I usually put the aggressor into a room alone. I would start with about 10 minutes. Then let him back out. If bad behavior continues, another time out, but for longer. Then on the 3rd strike, they are done for the day and kept in the room. This is how I did mine. It took persistence, but it did work.

Finn does need play time. I think I might put Charlie in your room while you have alone time with Finn to really get him moving. Remember he's still young. If you do your best to play with him and tire him out, he will be less interested in romping with Charlie.
 

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The fur I'm finding isn't huge chunks, but it is pulled out and not just shed, with small pieces of skin/follicle attached. I think sometimes it's just play that gets out of hand, but it's getting to the point that Charlie can't lay down to relax at all And Finn walks over to him and either pounces or drops his head, and starts circling him. The pouncing I think of as play, but the head drop with ears back and circling feels a bit more like a challenge? But I just don't know.
I would agree it's over the top from play that we let them carry on with, due to the amount of fur and the intensity, and do separation as above.
 

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This is what I recently learned about CBD
The Hemp CBD is from the Male plant and the Cannabis Derived CBD is from the Female plant
Most of these CBD's have a little THC (In California) I had gotten one without THC (Hard to find)
I may have to find a better quality Hemp CBD as the one I got just doesn't seem to work as well as
the Cannabis CBD. I am on a list to get more of the one I had gotten (sheesh)
I am going to try the Vine tho, that sounds interesting.

I have to play with Joey more now as he is acting up a bit, and I have been too busy!
His play has changed too, which makes it difficult for me to figure out.
 

Buffster7

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Thank you ladies for all of the good information and advice! I will put the time-outs into place next time behavior gets over-the-top again. Finn woke up feeling better today - it's weird how temperamental they can be. Fur flying one day, and mellow the next. Today is a chill day and this is happening right now:
Bestill1.jpg
BeStill2.jpg
BeStill3.jpg
 
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