when to meet face to face? (two kittens)

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
Hi, I've posted before on this, so forgive my continued questions.

I have a 5 month old shelter kitten who we have had since she was 10weeks old...we adopted a "sibling" for her and have had Ash for one week now and he is 10weeks old. He's been in a separate room and we have been scent swapping and sight swapping and had a few sniffs through a cracked door. She has been mostly curious, no signs of aggression, he has hissed everytime they get visual contact. Otherwise he is super sweet and snuggly with us and the usual amount of kitten playfulness. :) He's a much mellower kitten than her in general though--she is very high energy and super bonded to me.

Anyway. . .I think it's all been going fine. But I'm feeling like he needs more space and stimulation than just one room. . .and it's been 7 days. . .so how do I know when it's ok to put them in a room together? I'm paralyzed by fear they will fight and then never like each other. But he can't always live in the spare room!
 

Kieka

Snowshoe Servant
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
11,394
Purraise
19,963
Location
Southern California
Young kittens are highly adaptable and tolerate change a lot more readily then adults. You've already done scent swapping, you could start feeding on opposite sides of the door or with a screen blocking access but not view of each other. You could also just do face to face and see how it goes. With older cats I would feed on opposite sides first but kittens are a little more flexible.

Some hissing is to be expected as they adjust and remember that the line between playing and fighting is very fine. But they will work it out as they learn each other's boundaries and how to communicate.
 

She's a witch

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
1,780
Purraise
2,371
Location
Europe/WA, USA
I would totally let them be together now. Even earlier :) If there are two of you, you can start with each of you playing with each of the kittens on the opposite sides of the room. Just make sure you have lots of small boxes or other hiding spots for the little one to hide. or the older one. You'll see who needs it :)
And try not to stress as it won't certainly help. You have two kittens and 99% chance that everything will turn out great, really not worth your stress. If you worry, they can pick it up and think that there's a reason to worry, whereas in reality I'm pretty sure there's not.
And maybe watch some videos of cats playing before they interact so that you don't freak out when you'd see something that looks like fight but it;s not :)
 
Last edited:

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,485
Purraise
6,957
Two kittens = gonna be fine. Guaranty. Totally fine that the older one is hissing a little. He will get over it in a few days.

Two kittens are essentially always going to be become friends. You literally can't mess it up. So let them out!

You can and should watch them though, because 10 weeks is really young and there is a very small chance that the 5 month old will play too roughly for a kitten that age. Normally, I tell people not to worry about it, even if the young one squeals a little, but 10 weeks is really young. Still, the other cat is only 5 months, not a full grown but still over enthused one year old, so I think it should be fine.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
Thanks everyone! I feel reassured. I think when my husband is home we’ll try a face to face. I don’t want to do it all alone just in case things go awry
 

duncanmac

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
559
Purraise
953
Two kittens = gonna be fine. Guaranty. Totally fine that the older one is hissing a little. He will get over it in a few days.

Two kittens are essentially always going to be become friends. You literally can't mess it up. So let them out!
<<snip>>
I won't go quite as absolute as A ArtNJ , but yeah, kittens integrate pretty easily. Keep it supervised for the first few days, and you can probably do an over-night soon and may be next weekend be done with it.

Lots of play and lots of treats!!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
Should I keep any meetings short at first or do I just open the door and let it be? (assuming I'm home that is)

And how will I know if things are getting too stressful for the kittens and I should separate them?
 

duncanmac

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
559
Purraise
953
Should I keep any meetings short at first or do I just open the door and let it be? (assuming I'm home that is)

And how will I know if things are getting too stressful for the kittens and I should separate them?
You're going to have to play that by ear. Basically, we just opened the door and watched them. With the kitten, there was a hiss or two and that was it. When I introduced the first two, it was longer and rougher - one was a shy feral the other was just about to be neutered.

Cats, even kittens, play really rough. What you are watching and listening for is loud cat-fighting screeches like in the movies or cartoons and looking for a lack of give-and-take. A typical play fight will be rough wrestling with the loser running away. The winner may chase or not, but the loser should get a bit of a breather. Typically, if the loser comes back for more - it is play. After a while, you'll get a feeling that they are doing OK or that maybe it needs to end for the night (sometimes just because you've had enough stress). Don't feel bad if the first meeting is only 5 minutes, but don't end it too soon if you don't have too.

If you get a real cat fight, be careful breaking it up. This is one of the rare times I would use a squirt bottle.
 

She's a witch

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
1,780
Purraise
2,371
Location
Europe/WA, USA
Things can be tense at first between them but unlikely very stressful. But to be safe, and probably for your comfort more then theirs, I’d keep first meetings short, and take it from there. Both of you can play with each kitten in the same room. If you notice that they both start to seek each other’s company (standing by the door etc) I would end the separation completely.

You sort of need to listen to your intuition (but not fears ;) and their body language. Most of all, enjoy their interaction rather than stress about it. It’s really fascinating when two cats meet for the first time and their reactions can really be a treat to watch. Try to have a curious approach rather than stressful. I know, easy to say, but keep reminding yourself that.
It’s going to be great! Hopefully sooner than later but it will :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
if they were closer in age/size I don't think I'd have so many qualms. But at 6.5lbs and 5 months our tortie Sati seems huge compared to the 3lb 10week old! I guess I'm scared she will get aggressive with him and actually hurt him.

I had her in a carrier and let him come sniff her today though. . .and he hissed a bit but seemed less than last time. And she seemed super calm. . .always backing up when he hisses. Although her pupils were dilated so I worry that would turn into her pouncing him is she weren't confined. Her ears were up though and her tail relaxed. . .she didn't seem stressed, just very very aware/alert.
 

Kieka

Snowshoe Servant
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
11,394
Purraise
19,963
Location
Southern California
if they were closer in age/size I don't think I'd have so many qualms. But at 6.5lbs and 5 months our tortie Sati seems huge compared to the 3lb 10week old! I guess I'm scared she will get aggressive with him and actually hurt him.

I had her in a carrier and let him come sniff her today though. . .and he hissed a bit but seemed less than last time. And she seemed super calm. . .always backing up when he hisses. Although her pupils were dilated so I worry that would turn into her pouncing him is she weren't confined. Her ears were up though and her tail relaxed. . .she didn't seem stressed, just very very aware/alert.
My boy, Link, was a year old and 9 pounds when he met Rocket. Rocket at the time was 3 months old and just barely a pound (little thing was badly malnourished). He was gentle and careful with Rocket and never seriously hurt her. She hissed or growled at him and he listened if she was overwhelmed. A few times he jumped a little too hard or pushed her too far and every time he realized it and would look very sheepish. You do want to watch and step in if needed but they generally work it out fairly smoothly with minimal human intervention. Some older kittens do get carried away sometimes but 10 weeks is actually old enough to hold it's own or speak up fairly effectively.

I dont have access to old photos right now but here they are today, still a huge size difference and it doesn't make any difference in their relationship. He is nearly double her weight and still sometimes will overdo it and she still hisses at him.
20191102_071141.jpg
 

She's a witch

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Messages
1,780
Purraise
2,371
Location
Europe/WA, USA
Give them some treats when you have her in a carrier and him around, they need to associate each other with something good. Basically anytime they are together in the room.

I understand you want to be cautious and I agree with that, one of my kittens was also bigger then the other when introducing. And he did go rough with her (to the point that my husband was unable to watch how his princess was being treated :D), and although it looked rough it was totally ok and she found a way to let him know when to stop. Basically you’d need to learn to tell when to interfere. However, I’m a strong believer that cats communicate with each other better and most of the time human intervention is actually more harmful then letting them work things out.
Pouncing doesn’t always mean aggression, most of the time it is playing and maybe some dominance show off (which is ok, prepare that one of the cats can be more dominant than the other one and usually the other cat will accept it sooner or later).
Let us know how things go, I’m really interested and actually excited for you. You can also record a video just in case to show us if you’re not sure. You’ll have a cute video to watch in the years to come :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
Thanks for all your thoughts lovely folks!!

So first face to face this evening. Kept it short, mostly as I got too anxious. They both got pretty tail-poofy and ears-back at first. We tried to play with them and the 10wk old was able to get distracted into it, but my 5mo was just lazer focused on the little one and would not be distracted. It went ok for about 5 solid minutes,they started some swatting and hissing. . .couldn't tell how playful it was or serious. The little one did the belly up thing. But then the bigger on pounced the little and I got scared and we separated them.

I just don't know what's normal getting to know you stuff and what's "I'm really freaked out". . .but that was a pretty good start. No one got hurt! No one seemed too agitated even.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
Give them some treats when you have her in a carrier and him around, they need to associate each other with something good. Basically anytime they are together in the room.

I understand you want to be cautious and I agree with that, one of my kittens was also bigger then the other when introducing. And he did go rough with her (to the point that my husband was unable to watch how his princess was being treated :D), and although it looked rough it was totally ok and she found a way to let him know when to stop. Basically you’d need to learn to tell when to interfere. However, I’m a strong believer that cats communicate with each other better and most of the time human intervention is actually more harmful then letting them work things out.
Pouncing doesn’t always mean aggression, most of the time it is playing and maybe some dominance show off (which is ok, prepare that one of the cats can be more dominant than the other one and usually the other cat will accept it sooner or later).
Let us know how things go, I’m really interested and actually excited for you. You can also record a video just in case to show us if you’re not sure. You’ll have a cute video to watch in the years to come :)
They are now playing paws under the door. . .they are certainly aware of the other way more now!
I didn't take a video as I don't have the space on my phone, but I snapped a couple of pics. . .bad lighting and all.
big kitten looks really relaxed here. . .but then she pounced him. . .hmmm.

first meeting.JPG
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370

Kieka

Snowshoe Servant
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
11,394
Purraise
19,963
Location
Southern California
Yeah. . .that's definitely more "violent" than I would have expected. It's going to be hard for me to calm my anxiety down for play like that. . .
Play is practice for hunting and fighting. It can look pretty violent at times but if there is no fur or blood they are fine. Also, if they go back for more or dont avoid each other later they are fine. Often cats will take turns being the aggressor, kind of like tag, so if you see one always being the aggressor it can be a sign it's more serious. My girl is very very loud in play but most cats will have a quiet intensity once they've established play boundaries.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
Play is practice for hunting and fighting. It can look pretty violent at times but if there is no fur or blood they are fine. Also, if they go back for more or dont avoid each other later they are fine. Often cats will take turns being the aggressor, kind of like tag, so if you see one always being the aggressor it can be a sign it's more serious. My girl is very very loud in play but most cats will have a quiet intensity once they've established play boundaries.
So when they met and kind of immediately started swatting and then pouncing each other. . .that wasn't play yet was it? More like establishing boundaries?
 

Kieka

Snowshoe Servant
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
11,394
Purraise
19,963
Location
Southern California
So when they met and kind of immediately started swatting and then pouncing each other. . .that wasn't play yet was it? More like establishing boundaries?
Probably. In the picture you shared, that the one was eating in front of the other is a good sign. They wouldn't eat with the other in sight if they didn't feel some degree of safety and comfort.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

lucicat

TCS Member
Thread starter
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
312
Purraise
370
I served them breakfast in the same room today (normally big kitten would eat in the kitchen, but she’ll go wherever the food goes!) and they ate peacefully. Sati (resident kitten) took a little to calm down and eat (she just wanted to stare at snd sniff him), little guy ate right away. So he finished first and then came over and tried to eat her food and she backed away snd let him eat a few bites!!! I was shocked. I thought for sure she’d be the alpha. Maybe she knows he’s little?
Anyway, after eating they started the staring and hissing/swatting routine. So I ended the meeting.

I think it was a positive thing though overall.
22CD3D7C-6537-4A20-8898-DC285FC0C49E.jpeg
 
Top