With swatting, I changed my tone but not volume. With treats, I’d at least give a treat after petting or contact but for awhile you may need to do both. The goal is for the cat to associate you with good things.
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Took In Two 1 Yr Old Ferals
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GREAT that they are eagerly eating at the door. It tells me that they are not worried about the resident/existing cats. A good sign of their comfort and confidence.
How are the resident cats responding? Since it is their territory being "invaded" (in their minds) they can have bigger issues with it (but not to worry because that is common).
That is not good. I am surprised that Panda is not understanding she doesn't want to play. It is good that Sandy knew where the line is (hurt vs tell). And if Panda bounced back quickly that is a positive. But we are going to have to work on draining Panda's energy. Or introduce Panda more quickly to the resident cats. We will work on this.Well, the reason Panda is getting along with your family is BECAUSE of all the work you have done to make him comfortable with humans. Different situations BUT a GREAT sign that all your work is doing great things for Panda (confidence, trust, etc).
Sandy, is normal. Some just take more time. It is all about building that trust and confidence. You can do that. We'll get the maximum out of Sandy. Some cats are more standoffish while others can adapt more. Sandy sounds happy so so far you are doing great. We will do our best to get Sandy more adjusted. We'll find her level down the road and accept where she is. The main point is she is happy and safe.
I am back now so despite some issues I will be able to be on here every day so we can continue your progress. Hang in there, you are doing great.
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AWESOME!!! Play is so important in building confidence. This is fantastic to hear. Keep playing with her. It is fine that she doesn't come close. Confidence will build and that will help in all aspects of the process. I am ecstatic that she is playing!!
I always let them initiate contact. So I will let them rub and show an interest in petting and go at their pace. Cats like to do things on their terms so I always try to get them to go along with something making it something they believe they initiated. I'll just sit with them, give treats, eye kisses, etc. Then down the road I offer my hand a good distance away so the cat has to come and rub on it rather than me giving my hand to them. So I would do that with Panda. For Sandy, I would not rush it for now and just sit near her, give her treats, talk to here but not to offer my hand in any way. We'll want to get to where she wants to mark you with her scent. It may take time but that is ok. We are all about building confidence and trust right now. Plenty of time to pet in the future.
So, I would just give treats without getting rubbing/petting. Some cats are less touchy feely than others so we just go with who they are. Sandy will watch your interactions with Panda and learn from those as well.
Positive associations is exactly correct. We want that for better confidence, more trust, to help with introductions, etc.
It is all a process and positive associations are a big part of that.
You are doing great. Much further ahead than I thought so I am really impressed and proud. Keep up the great work and just take one step at a time. We have some ways to go but keep building confidence (Play, Food, Height, and Love) and that will help in trust, intros, behavior, etc.
Keep up the great work.
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Panda is pretty much a normal cat now.
He will come out of the room and come near my parents and wont run from them. He is playing alot with Baxter. Rabbit is tolerating and sometimes playing aswell but Rabbit seems to want to grip the back of Panda's neck alot which Panda doesnt offer much fight to. Panda is extremely energetic. He pushes Baxter into playing with him when Baxter is minding his own business. Panda hasnt hissed at anyone in a long time. I can pet Panda sometimes, sometimes he will let me and other times he will offer resistance which I usually leave him alone if he does.
Sandy is becoming.....more interesting.
She is staying in the open longer than she used to. She has even come to the doorwar while the door was open to look around outside the room and generally wont hiss at me unless I do something unexpected. Sandy however seems to be much more aggressive than Panda was. She will sometimes attack Panda when Panda is doing something she doesnt want to see (like playing across the room or if she's in one of her moods and Panda lays close to her) and other times she is completely fine.
For me specifically, I still dont feel comfortable getting my hand too close to her but she is less afraid of me than she used to be as she no longer hides when I enter the room. She will allow me to sit pretty close to her as long as I'm giving her food. I catch her staring at me alot for no apparent reason, of which I generally avoid looking back at her. My mother states she has caught Sandy playing with my hair when I'm asleep. She walks closer to my bed when I'm laying down too. I usually just look away from her as to show her I'm not targeting her but admittedly theres a internal fear of what might happen if she gets too close and curious and swats me in the face. She can be pretty unpredictable at times.
He will come out of the room and come near my parents and wont run from them. He is playing alot with Baxter. Rabbit is tolerating and sometimes playing aswell but Rabbit seems to want to grip the back of Panda's neck alot which Panda doesnt offer much fight to. Panda is extremely energetic. He pushes Baxter into playing with him when Baxter is minding his own business. Panda hasnt hissed at anyone in a long time. I can pet Panda sometimes, sometimes he will let me and other times he will offer resistance which I usually leave him alone if he does.
Sandy is becoming.....more interesting.
She is staying in the open longer than she used to. She has even come to the doorwar while the door was open to look around outside the room and generally wont hiss at me unless I do something unexpected. Sandy however seems to be much more aggressive than Panda was. She will sometimes attack Panda when Panda is doing something she doesnt want to see (like playing across the room or if she's in one of her moods and Panda lays close to her) and other times she is completely fine.
For me specifically, I still dont feel comfortable getting my hand too close to her but she is less afraid of me than she used to be as she no longer hides when I enter the room. She will allow me to sit pretty close to her as long as I'm giving her food. I catch her staring at me alot for no apparent reason, of which I generally avoid looking back at her. My mother states she has caught Sandy playing with my hair when I'm asleep. She walks closer to my bed when I'm laying down too. I usually just look away from her as to show her I'm not targeting her but admittedly theres a internal fear of what might happen if she gets too close and curious and swats me in the face. She can be pretty unpredictable at times.
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Whats the best way to handle Sandy sleeping in my bed when I'm ready to sleep?
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WOW, those pictures are ADORABLE!!!!
He is "normal" because of all your efforts. You have done an amazing job!! A seriously amazing job with them.
Sine Panda is interacting with the other cats it is very important to make sure every encounter is as positive as possible between them. If you sense any "issues" try to distract them by play (a toy), or food/treats. or voice (calling their name) etc. Anything to avoid a negative encounter. Them being together is a bit sooner than I would recommend so we need to build that trust between them. As trust will reduce the risks of attacks and other problems. So anything you can do t get them positive encounters and positive associations when they are near each other is important. So feeding near each other. Just hanging out. Things like that and trying to avoid any negative encounters. Especially work with Rabbit on building that trust between them. And keep building their confidence via Play, Food, Height and Love. Keep very calm and confident when around them as cats take on our emotions and the more "cool" we are and acting like everything is fine the more relaxed and "cool" they will be, lessening any potential risk of a negative encounter. Distract in a positive way as needed to avoid any potential negativity.
Sandy sounds like she is doing AMAZINGLY well. This is GREAT progress.
I do want to be careful about her going to the door and observing the other cats. We need to make positive associations and make sure that Sandy does not feel threatened (physically or access to food/water etc) by the resident/existing cats. We don't want Sandy to fear them as a cat afraid can either attack (a good defense is a good offense) causing disharmony and stress or retreat and hide and hold back the introduction and integration. So it is really important to build positive associations between them, make every encounter as positive as possible, and to build their confidence (as confident cats are less likely to attack or be attacked).
Sandy attacking Panda could be "redirected aggression". Does this happen if the resident cats are around? Or after Panda has been in the resident cat's territory (having their scent on him)? Or were the resident cats making noise or by the door?
The fact she is out in the open with you and not hiding is great and a very good sign of her trust. Just keep doing your thing and not forcing affection on her. Let her come to you, on her terms. It is all about building that trust between you and making those positive associations. Using food is the best way to do that. Don;t worry about her staring at you, cats do that. You can give her eye kisses. Don't stare back though, stay calm and confident, move at your normal pace. act normal, do your normal things. If you are the same as usual then she will be fine. It is really only when we change that the cat senses something different and starts to worry. So just be yourself. It is VERY VERY rare for a cat to attack for no reason.
Wow, she is trying to "groom" you. That is pretty special. You definitely have a bond starting with her. Yes, I know what you mean the fear when a new cat comes on he bed and sniffs your face etc. Just try to not startle her when she is doing that. I think I can safely say Sandy does not want to hurt you for no reason. Of course, there is a risk if she is startled but my experience is a cat will run away rather than confront especially if there are multiple exits. So if the cat is in a corner again 2 walls and you are sleeping between her and the rest of the room that is more of a risk then if she can jump anywhere and run away in any direction. I think she understands you are a positive now and not a threat but I do understand your concern but I do think the risk is very small though it is a risk.
Has she every swatted you in the face? And if so, how did it come about?
So how should you handle her in your bed when you want to use it to sleep. Well, you can use something positive (food/treats or play) to get her down. Or if you are comfortable just carefully get in and try not to upset her too much and see if she just jumps down or stays. Also, make sure maybe she has some comfy bedding as an alternative. But I am guessing she want to be by your scent which is another great sign of the bond you are building with her.
I think you are doing an amazing job and are way ahead of where I thought you would be. You definitely have some great cat instincts. We have work to do but I am really confident we are going to succeed.
Please let me know what questions you have as it is pretty nuanced and at times a little complex but we'll get through it. Keep up the great work!!
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A bit of an update... first with some news then with some progress.
I just found out Sandy is using her bed as a litterbox. She pretty much did it right infront of me. I had to throw both her bed and the sheets on it in the trash. I didnt do anything to her specifically but she isnt happy right now.
I still need to clean the area but Sandy is hiding there (she got very stressed and hissed / hid when I had to remove the bed.)
Her litter box is clean as I just cleaned it this evening so I'm not sure why she would choose her bed.
Rabbit is also pooping outside the litterbox in the other room but typically right infront of the box infront of two fresh and clean litter boxes and I cant figure out why.
Before that happened, she was coming along. She was playing with me with a shoe string and allowed me to get my hand pretty close. Sometimes she takes long fixed gazes on me. Not sure what that means.
No, she hasnt ever swatted my face before. I was just afraid of something like that happening.
What do I need to do about Sandy and Rabbit doing their business outside the litterbox?
I just found out Sandy is using her bed as a litterbox. She pretty much did it right infront of me. I had to throw both her bed and the sheets on it in the trash. I didnt do anything to her specifically but she isnt happy right now.
I still need to clean the area but Sandy is hiding there (she got very stressed and hissed / hid when I had to remove the bed.)
Her litter box is clean as I just cleaned it this evening so I'm not sure why she would choose her bed.
Rabbit is also pooping outside the litterbox in the other room but typically right infront of the box infront of two fresh and clean litter boxes and I cant figure out why.
Before that happened, she was coming along. She was playing with me with a shoe string and allowed me to get my hand pretty close. Sometimes she takes long fixed gazes on me. Not sure what that means.
No, she hasnt ever swatted my face before. I was just afraid of something like that happening.
What do I need to do about Sandy and Rabbit doing their business outside the litterbox?
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Cats don't use the litter box for 2 reasons: Medical (infection or pain) or Behavioral (territorial insecurity, stress, etc). I like to rule out medical first in most cases but given Sandy's situation and the details I think we need to think of it as behavioral driven as it sounds like territorial insecurity.
When cats feel territorially insecure (because of fear of other cats, etc) they will mark something they want to "own" with their scent. A cat's instinct is to hide their scent but when stressed or territorially insecure they will go on things to "own" them and feel more secure telling other cats or animals that " THIS IS MINE, STAY AWAY".
Make sure you clean the area with an ezymatic cleaner as cat pee is unique and it is very important to get the scent away.
A few questions.
I know that Panda is playing aggressively with Sandy, this could be causing stress with Sandy. And stress can cause a cat to go outside of the litter box. So we'll have to figure out a way to get Panda not to "mess around" with Sandy. Hs this still been going on?
Also, Sandy could be responding to Panda gt the other cat's scent on him and since Sandy doesn't yet know or trust the resident cats she could be fearful of her security and therefore peeing and letting everyone know that "this is hers".
Have the resident cats been in Sandy's room before the peeing? DO you think it is possible the resident cats used the litter box in Sandy and Panda's room?
What exactly happened before Sandy peed on the bed in front of you?
Peeing outside of the litter box is a cry for help. We need to do everything we can to make her feel safe and secure and to try to build her confidence. So keeping the resident cats out of her room. Trying to limit Panda's "attacks" on Sandy (by playing with him as much as possible and trying to keep him in his room and not with the resident cats as that aggressiveness could be redirected aggression and Sandy is an innocent bystander). Has Panda been having issues with the resident cats?
For Rabbit. Is it safe to say that Rabbit and Panda do not yet exactly get along well? It sounds like Rabbit is a bit aggressive with Baxter (grabbing his neck I believe) and even though Panda doesn't fight it could be causing Panda stress and insecurity and Panda is taking it out on Sandy which is then causing Sandy's peeing issues.
An for Rabbit, again going outside of the litter box tends to me medical or behavioral. Are Rabbit's poops normal or are they more unformed or wet or harder than normal? Any sign of them being any different then normal? It could be that Rabbit is also making his scent known as to tell Panda "this is mine and stay away". Was Panda with him and/or did they have any negative encounter within a day before Rabbit went outside of the litter box? Is it possible that Panda used that litter box that Rabbit went outside of?
Ok, so for solutions. I think we have to keep Sandy and Panda totally separated from the resident cats. We need to try to stabilize them to end the going outside of the litter box to see if it is behavioral. If things calm down and they the going outside stops then we know we are on to a solution. During this I want you to step up play with Panda and Rabbit if at all possible (separately in their own territories). After play feed treats or a meal. Also, try to hang out with Sandy, give treats, try to help her feel more secure. If you can get her to play that would be helpful.
Yes, I am actually surprised at this update as Sandy seemed to be doing really well. I was concerned about Rabbit and Panda and I wonder if this is a result of that uneasy relationship. I think we need to keep them totally separate (Panda and Sandy in the one room and the resident cats elsewhere) and see if that solves the issue. I know Panda is not going to like it especially but stepping up play might help ease it. But we have to stop the going outside of the litter box first. Make sure you really focus on Sandy and Panda and try to make them de-stress and drain some energy with play (especially Panda) and use food to help make them happy. Anything you can do to just help them get back to what they were feeling a week ago. More confident and more territorially secure.
Sandy staring is really nothing to worry about. Cats do that. She loves you and trusts you so I am not worried about the staring.
Please post anytime and ask any questions and feel free to give any information however small you may think it is or if you can get video. Anything you can share could be helpful in understanding what is happening.
Hang in there, a cat's instinct is to use the litter box so we have instinct on our side as well as the history with the cats using the litter boxes.
When cats feel territorially insecure (because of fear of other cats, etc) they will mark something they want to "own" with their scent. A cat's instinct is to hide their scent but when stressed or territorially insecure they will go on things to "own" them and feel more secure telling other cats or animals that " THIS IS MINE, STAY AWAY".
Make sure you clean the area with an ezymatic cleaner as cat pee is unique and it is very important to get the scent away.
A few questions.
I know that Panda is playing aggressively with Sandy, this could be causing stress with Sandy. And stress can cause a cat to go outside of the litter box. So we'll have to figure out a way to get Panda not to "mess around" with Sandy. Hs this still been going on?
Also, Sandy could be responding to Panda gt the other cat's scent on him and since Sandy doesn't yet know or trust the resident cats she could be fearful of her security and therefore peeing and letting everyone know that "this is hers".
Have the resident cats been in Sandy's room before the peeing? DO you think it is possible the resident cats used the litter box in Sandy and Panda's room?
What exactly happened before Sandy peed on the bed in front of you?
Peeing outside of the litter box is a cry for help. We need to do everything we can to make her feel safe and secure and to try to build her confidence. So keeping the resident cats out of her room. Trying to limit Panda's "attacks" on Sandy (by playing with him as much as possible and trying to keep him in his room and not with the resident cats as that aggressiveness could be redirected aggression and Sandy is an innocent bystander). Has Panda been having issues with the resident cats?
For Rabbit. Is it safe to say that Rabbit and Panda do not yet exactly get along well? It sounds like Rabbit is a bit aggressive with Baxter (grabbing his neck I believe) and even though Panda doesn't fight it could be causing Panda stress and insecurity and Panda is taking it out on Sandy which is then causing Sandy's peeing issues.
An for Rabbit, again going outside of the litter box tends to me medical or behavioral. Are Rabbit's poops normal or are they more unformed or wet or harder than normal? Any sign of them being any different then normal? It could be that Rabbit is also making his scent known as to tell Panda "this is mine and stay away". Was Panda with him and/or did they have any negative encounter within a day before Rabbit went outside of the litter box? Is it possible that Panda used that litter box that Rabbit went outside of?
Ok, so for solutions. I think we have to keep Sandy and Panda totally separated from the resident cats. We need to try to stabilize them to end the going outside of the litter box to see if it is behavioral. If things calm down and they the going outside stops then we know we are on to a solution. During this I want you to step up play with Panda and Rabbit if at all possible (separately in their own territories). After play feed treats or a meal. Also, try to hang out with Sandy, give treats, try to help her feel more secure. If you can get her to play that would be helpful.
Yes, I am actually surprised at this update as Sandy seemed to be doing really well. I was concerned about Rabbit and Panda and I wonder if this is a result of that uneasy relationship. I think we need to keep them totally separate (Panda and Sandy in the one room and the resident cats elsewhere) and see if that solves the issue. I know Panda is not going to like it especially but stepping up play might help ease it. But we have to stop the going outside of the litter box first. Make sure you really focus on Sandy and Panda and try to make them de-stress and drain some energy with play (especially Panda) and use food to help make them happy. Anything you can do to just help them get back to what they were feeling a week ago. More confident and more territorially secure.
Sandy staring is really nothing to worry about. Cats do that. She loves you and trusts you so I am not worried about the staring.
Please post anytime and ask any questions and feel free to give any information however small you may think it is or if you can get video. Anything you can share could be helpful in understanding what is happening.
Hang in there, a cat's instinct is to use the litter box so we have instinct on our side as well as the history with the cats using the litter boxes.
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So I have yet another problem, I'll explain in a bit.
As for Sandy pooping and peeing in the bed (she actually pooped infront of me, not peed - although I found her bed to be soaked with both), I had to leave town for a weekend (out of state work). I'm pretty sure I would have noticed it before hand before I left if she was doing that so I believe it happened during the weekend I was gone. Panda and Sandy were the only ones in my room during that period.
After I tossed her bed she REALLY became recluse. She does still play alittle but its like she's trying to find anyplace she can to hide and seems generally upset. I cleaned the area up ten times over with natures miracle and mops and I personally can't detect anything there anymore, nor has Sandy went back to that area. I haven't replaced the bed yet for the fear of that happening again.
As for Panda and Rabbit, it seems like they get along okay but Rabbit and Sandy do not like each other at all. Its extremely difficult to keep them separate right now because my mother and father moved in with me during this episode and have to enter / exit my room pretty often and they dont feel comfortable handling them. Sandy generally never leaves my room, although she has peeked out the doorway here and there. Panda comes and goes quite often. Usually the resident cats dont occupy my room but Baxter tries to get in quite often to be with Panda. Sandy generally tolerates Baxter as long as he stays away from her but if he gets too close she will lash out. Sandy will hunt Rabbit down if he enters however and Rabbit doesn't stand down to her so I keep them separate as much as possible.
Now the new problem. While I was away, Sandy's pee must have hit my modem because it no longer worked when I got back home and I lost all internet connectivity. That resulted in a visit from AT&T. When the technician came, as expected all the cats (both resident and feral) hid, which was fine...but Rabbit picked a unique hiding spot. He literally pulled up the carpet from the stairway and hid under the carpet. The technician didn't see him and I believe he stepped on Rabbit on his way out the building and Rabbit SCRAMBLED up and into my room. Ever since then Rabbit has not been normal at all. He is howling and crying and extremely uneasy. He is absolutely terrified of my family and won't leave my room as he will claw me up and pee all over me if I try to take him out.. ..when I did get him out, he clawed up the carpet looking for a place to hide. I can't tell if he's injured or not but he will not rest with the resident cats or the cat tree or anywhere else near my family. I try to feel over him to see if there's anything abnormal but I can't tell. He still walks and runs normally but often bundles up. He hisses at me when I try to handle him for too long.
I may have to take him to the vet, I was really trying to avoid it because these vet bills are murdering me financially.
Ginger is also giving me problems to. He still has hoarse meowing and extremely relentless about being fed - he will literally NEVER stop eating if food is left out. its literally like he never feels full and he will cry and scratch at doors and whine. I never give in to it but its becoming extremely aggravating. I took him to two different vets, blood work, xrays, they could find nothing, no thyroid issues, no T4 count problems, they did say they did detect swelling in his throat but couldn't determine the cause. They recommended zyrtec and that didnt help. They gave me antibiotics but that also didnt help. The only other option is to stick a stethoscope down his throat to see if they can see anything else, but that will cost alot.
As for Sandy pooping and peeing in the bed (she actually pooped infront of me, not peed - although I found her bed to be soaked with both), I had to leave town for a weekend (out of state work). I'm pretty sure I would have noticed it before hand before I left if she was doing that so I believe it happened during the weekend I was gone. Panda and Sandy were the only ones in my room during that period.
After I tossed her bed she REALLY became recluse. She does still play alittle but its like she's trying to find anyplace she can to hide and seems generally upset. I cleaned the area up ten times over with natures miracle and mops and I personally can't detect anything there anymore, nor has Sandy went back to that area. I haven't replaced the bed yet for the fear of that happening again.
As for Panda and Rabbit, it seems like they get along okay but Rabbit and Sandy do not like each other at all. Its extremely difficult to keep them separate right now because my mother and father moved in with me during this episode and have to enter / exit my room pretty often and they dont feel comfortable handling them. Sandy generally never leaves my room, although she has peeked out the doorway here and there. Panda comes and goes quite often. Usually the resident cats dont occupy my room but Baxter tries to get in quite often to be with Panda. Sandy generally tolerates Baxter as long as he stays away from her but if he gets too close she will lash out. Sandy will hunt Rabbit down if he enters however and Rabbit doesn't stand down to her so I keep them separate as much as possible.
Now the new problem. While I was away, Sandy's pee must have hit my modem because it no longer worked when I got back home and I lost all internet connectivity. That resulted in a visit from AT&T. When the technician came, as expected all the cats (both resident and feral) hid, which was fine...but Rabbit picked a unique hiding spot. He literally pulled up the carpet from the stairway and hid under the carpet. The technician didn't see him and I believe he stepped on Rabbit on his way out the building and Rabbit SCRAMBLED up and into my room. Ever since then Rabbit has not been normal at all. He is howling and crying and extremely uneasy. He is absolutely terrified of my family and won't leave my room as he will claw me up and pee all over me if I try to take him out.. ..when I did get him out, he clawed up the carpet looking for a place to hide. I can't tell if he's injured or not but he will not rest with the resident cats or the cat tree or anywhere else near my family. I try to feel over him to see if there's anything abnormal but I can't tell. He still walks and runs normally but often bundles up. He hisses at me when I try to handle him for too long.
I may have to take him to the vet, I was really trying to avoid it because these vet bills are murdering me financially.
Ginger is also giving me problems to. He still has hoarse meowing and extremely relentless about being fed - he will literally NEVER stop eating if food is left out. its literally like he never feels full and he will cry and scratch at doors and whine. I never give in to it but its becoming extremely aggravating. I took him to two different vets, blood work, xrays, they could find nothing, no thyroid issues, no T4 count problems, they did say they did detect swelling in his throat but couldn't determine the cause. They recommended zyrtec and that didnt help. They gave me antibiotics but that also didnt help. The only other option is to stick a stethoscope down his throat to see if they can see anything else, but that will cost alot.
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I am so sorry to hear about this.
We take each issue separately but I think a lot of them are interconnected.
What happened during the hours before Sandy pooped in front of you? Was anyone blocking her way to the litter box?
You are Sandy's caretaker, the protector, the confidence giver. You are probably the most important thing in Sandy's life. This happens with rescued ferals. So when you had to leave that is like taking territory away and being at risk. And since we don't know what exactly happened she was vulnerable to any potential (real or imagined) threats and she had to make to scream "Stay away, this is mine". So I can understand that happening. We don't want it but understand.
Now with the pooping I am wondering. It could be territorial. Was the poop different than normal? Harder or softer? Color? Did she look like she was having issues when going? Did she try to cover it when she was done?
The bed was here territory and something she owned so when we take that away even when we don't have a choice (you had to take it away) they can feel less secure. And of course, when things like this happen we tend not to be happy and since we are cleaning we are doing something not in the "routine" so that can cause a cat stress or unease. So her hiding is understandable. Try to just hang with her, help her de-stress, give treats, just be your loving self. Just so she can feel more secure. Anything to get her back into feeling more calm and secure and go back to a routine. She never had an issue like this before so getting her back into a routine and bonding with her should help end that. But we do need to keep the resident cats away as much as possible especially because Rabbit and Sandy do not get along (which is also probably causing issues with Rabbit). Anytime cats feel like they can't trust another cat they can act up (not using the litter box etc).
Also, because your mother and father are now living there this is another change in the routine and it takes time for cats to accept new people in the house (even if they are great). So this can cause insecurity and stress and cause litter box and behavioral issues. The important thing is to have your parents stay as calm and confident around the cats as possible, not look at them, stand over the cats, act normal (walk normally etc) and possibly have them feed the cats to build that bond.
Poor Rabbit. I am worried Rabbit may be injured. Now, if he doesn't seem injured given your examination then let's hope he is not. It is normal for a cat that is not hurt but when they are scared like that to do exactly what Rabbit is doing. Combine that with some of the issues with Sandy and it is understandable that he is really, really having issues with confidence, security, trust, etc. SO keep watching him. It is a good sign he is walking and running normally. But we still have to worry about injury BUT I worry a vet visit could be too traumatic. SO we have to weigh the injury risk vs the trauma. If you sense anything physically wrong or that he is not eating etc then a vet visit might have to be necessary. If you can hang out with him, give him love, get him to relax and trust again (using food and love if you can safely without being hurt) and see if he gets back to normal with regards to behavior then we could get him in to the vet. Just don't force holding him etc, just hang out and build that trust again and see how he responds. He should respond quickly but having your parents there could cause it to take longer.
There are organizations that can help with vet bills. I can't exactly remember but I can search and see. I think the ASPCA may have some links. I will check another post where it has been mentioned as well.
Having trouble affording veterinary care?
Financial Aid for Pets
Financial Resources for Cats
Help with Veterinary Bills » PAWS
Poor Ginger. I know, sometimes health issues are very hard to find the cause. I have been through this as well. Sometimes it is behavioral but often times it is a medical issue. Did Ginger act this way only after Sandy and Panda came in? I would ask the vet what it could be and if a probe would find something what would be the cure or treatment.
I am so sorry about everything. I guess given everything I can understand why the cats are going outside of the litter box. It sounds like there is a lot of change, stress, visitors, startling encounters, relationship issues.
What we need to do is try to stabilize the situation. Keep the cats separate as much as possible. Try to hang with Sandy and Rabbit and try to get them de-stressed, give treats, just hang out, etc. Keep to a routine. Act normally. Stay as calm and confident as possible. And see how they respond. Given the past you can get them back to feeling secure and more confident and that should end the litter box issues.
And keep monitoring Rabbit so if needed you may have to make a vet visit if there is an injury and we can deal with the trauma of a vet visit after.
I am so sorry there is so much going on. It breaks my heart so I can imagine how much it is hurting you. Please post as often as needed and I will try to help. Just focus on Rabbit first to make sure he is physically ok. Then try to help de-stress him and Sandy by hanging out, not forcing attention, giving treats, love if you can safely. Just give them reassurance that everything will be ok.
If you have any questions please ask. I think you can stabilize them fairly quickly given your way with cats but if they don't respond please post and we'll address it and analyse the situation.
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I think (hope) Rabbit is just scared. He gets a bit more active at night when he thinks everyone is asleep and will play with Baxter. I brought him to the top step on the stairway and just held him there and petted him while keeping him still so he could see my family from a distance. He was extremely uneasy and tried to go back down but didnt put up a big fight. Eventually he did come up while extremely uneasy. He seems to only be willing to do it if Im there around him though.
Sandy is allowing play more and more and I can get my hand closer to her while playing sometimes, other times she will be hesitant and stop - when she does I just end the play session and let her be. I need to start keeping treats in here so I can reward her immediately. It's weird to see Sandy more at ease than Rabbit. I woke up to find Sandy running around the room playing so I played with her a bit more while I was laying down. I then offered the back of my hand to her while she was pretty close to me - she stared at it for a moment then lifted her paw like she was going to swat so I retracted it and let her be.
Sandy is allowing play more and more and I can get my hand closer to her while playing sometimes, other times she will be hesitant and stop - when she does I just end the play session and let her be. I need to start keeping treats in here so I can reward her immediately. It's weird to see Sandy more at ease than Rabbit. I woke up to find Sandy running around the room playing so I played with her a bit more while I was laying down. I then offered the back of my hand to her while she was pretty close to me - she stared at it for a moment then lifted her paw like she was going to swat so I retracted it and let her be.
I think you may have too many different personalities with the cats and they're conflicting and everyone seems stressed out. I think you may want to consider contacting an adoption place and get Sandy placed with an experienced foster home to work on her behavior. She may end needing to be in a single cat household.
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I'm not sure if any exist here that are not occupied with multiple cats. Austin is a no kill city so all excess feral kittens and strays end up in fosters usually with multiple cats that wind up trying to sell them as pets. That's how I got Rabbit and Baxter. Usually they are willing to take back their own cats but not foreign ones. Sandy and Panda came from Georgia (that's where my old office was, I took them across country to Texas not long after catching them.)
I managed to get some play in with Sandy:
She eventually nic'd my hand after this video and immediately jumped up and hissed and ran away to a corner. I calmly told her it was okay and just gave her eye kisses.
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I am going to combine the response of both posts into this one to make it easier to follow.
I am so glad to hear this about Rabbit. It is great that he is getting more active AND playing with Baxter. It is traumatic enough for someone or something to come into their territory. Add to that an actual incident of an accidental potential threat of being stepped on or kicked and it will definitely cause a cat to get cautious/fearful. It takes some time to build that trust again so what you are doing is great. Try to take it slow, just build his confidence and trust in the area he is in and slowly expand it. Showing him the area where the incident happened is a good idea but just make sure he is ready for it. It is normal for them to still have negative feelings about that. Maybe use food or a toy (something positive) to encourage him into that area. And as long as nothing happens that is negative in that area he will slowly build confidence. But overall, it sounds like it is more psychological rather than physical but since cats tolerate pain very well keep an eye on him and watch for any abnormal behavior. But overall, I am happy to hear this. Keep being with Rabbit, doing positive things with him, give him love, build his confidence. He will get back to himself. But definitely keep Sandy away from him and vice versa.
Keep playing with Sandy. Don't worry about offering your hand for now especially during a play session. Try to make the toy act like prey. Like a mouse or worm. On the ground, halting movements. Hiding around things. Or like a bird and have it fly past her. It is hard when they capture it and not let go but try to get it loose (not using your hands). Try to peak her interest so she pounces. It is all about Hunt/stalk, Capture, Kill and then repeat and after play feed treats or a meal (Eat). So if she moves around a bit more, runs after it to pounce. Things like that. After she is done then feed either treats or a meal. Then she will probably groom and then sleep.
I think I understand why Sandy is rebounding faster than Rabbit. Sandy's world is you, you are her protector. So you coming back gave her her confidence back. And of course, not having as much anxiety in the rest of the house. It is all about giving them the routine and letting them know all is well. Being calm and confident, giving good things (food, play). I think this was sadly the perfect storm situation. A lot hit at the same time. But giving them normalcy again is really important and I know you can do that (you are doing it now).
Waking up to find Sandy running around and playing is great. Don't worry about her not responding to your hand at this time. Do it more when she is more relaxed (not in hunting or play mode). And having something positive (food). But overall, Sandy seems to absolutely love you so I wouldn't worry about forcing affection (offering the hand) for now. I think when she starts rubbing on you then that will be her message to say "let's get closer".
I watched the video with Sandy playing. She looked like a normal cat. She was happy, great body language, loved the play. She looked like one of my cats. If I didn't know I never would think she was in the wild just a several months ago. I have seen older ferals after years not act this way. I think it is REALLY positive. But I think Sandy is doing amazingly well. I would like to see her moving around more. So the toy acting more like prey. So "crawling" on the ground. Halting movements. Maybe "jumping in the air". Then Sandy Stalking it and then pouncing. Acting like a grasshopper, or mouse, or bird. Think how prey would act with a cat around. And try to get Sandy to stalk it then pounce. And run around a bit. In the video she was definitely engaged and loving it though which is great.
I would like to ask why Sandy ran to that door at the end of the video/play session. Did another cat come to the door?
What exactly happened right before she nicked your hand? She was probably amped up from the play session and if there was another cat at the door that could have caused her issues. Right after play just let her cool down before making any movements to her. It is better to just feed her and let her be.
Wow, I didn't know Sandy and Panda came from Georgia. Honestly, it is amazing how well they are doing.
So overall, I am really pleased to see you are getting them stabilized so quickly. I thought you could do it but this is faster than I thought. Keep up the good work to build those positive moments, build their confidence and trust, keep them separate, keep playing, keep feeding, keep loving. Give them your emotions so they can take them on and be more confidence. Staying in a routine for them. Basically just doing what you have been doing.
Please update us on how things are going. I think the going outside of the litter box has probably stopped. I think it was just the stress of you being gone and the negative encounters (keeping them separate will solve that). Try to keep cat and human stress to a minimum (I know easier said than done) and stay as calm and confident and loving around them. Keep playing (building confidence).
Sandy should be good to have another bed soon as well.
SO please let us know how things are going (any negatives) but I think you are about 75% of the way back to getting them to the place they were before. You are doing a great job stabilizing them. It is coming along faster than I expected. But there is more work.
It is really important to keep them separated so as not to get any negative emotions towards each other built up. Especially Rabbit and Sandy/Panda and Sandy with the resident cats. We need to convince them that the other cats are only positive. That there is not a threat - either physical or to their food and water etc. So we need to make every encounter as positive as possible and avoid any negative encounters. We have work and it is not going to be easy. But I do think it is possible. The key is to have the knowledge and the desire. And I think we have both. We do have to do everything we can to keep them separate for now. If Panda and Rabbit can build more trust between them then we could integrate Panda then work on getting Sandy there.
So let's just take it step by step. Let's get Rabbit back to normal and keep working with Sandy and keep them separated. And then when we get there let's get Sandy a new bed and then move forward.
Keep us up on how things are going and please ask anything anytime.
I am so glad to hear this about Rabbit. It is great that he is getting more active AND playing with Baxter. It is traumatic enough for someone or something to come into their territory. Add to that an actual incident of an accidental potential threat of being stepped on or kicked and it will definitely cause a cat to get cautious/fearful. It takes some time to build that trust again so what you are doing is great. Try to take it slow, just build his confidence and trust in the area he is in and slowly expand it. Showing him the area where the incident happened is a good idea but just make sure he is ready for it. It is normal for them to still have negative feelings about that. Maybe use food or a toy (something positive) to encourage him into that area. And as long as nothing happens that is negative in that area he will slowly build confidence. But overall, it sounds like it is more psychological rather than physical but since cats tolerate pain very well keep an eye on him and watch for any abnormal behavior. But overall, I am happy to hear this. Keep being with Rabbit, doing positive things with him, give him love, build his confidence. He will get back to himself. But definitely keep Sandy away from him and vice versa.
Keep playing with Sandy. Don't worry about offering your hand for now especially during a play session. Try to make the toy act like prey. Like a mouse or worm. On the ground, halting movements. Hiding around things. Or like a bird and have it fly past her. It is hard when they capture it and not let go but try to get it loose (not using your hands). Try to peak her interest so she pounces. It is all about Hunt/stalk, Capture, Kill and then repeat and after play feed treats or a meal (Eat). So if she moves around a bit more, runs after it to pounce. Things like that. After she is done then feed either treats or a meal. Then she will probably groom and then sleep.
I think I understand why Sandy is rebounding faster than Rabbit. Sandy's world is you, you are her protector. So you coming back gave her her confidence back. And of course, not having as much anxiety in the rest of the house. It is all about giving them the routine and letting them know all is well. Being calm and confident, giving good things (food, play). I think this was sadly the perfect storm situation. A lot hit at the same time. But giving them normalcy again is really important and I know you can do that (you are doing it now).
Waking up to find Sandy running around and playing is great. Don't worry about her not responding to your hand at this time. Do it more when she is more relaxed (not in hunting or play mode). And having something positive (food). But overall, Sandy seems to absolutely love you so I wouldn't worry about forcing affection (offering the hand) for now. I think when she starts rubbing on you then that will be her message to say "let's get closer".
I watched the video with Sandy playing. She looked like a normal cat. She was happy, great body language, loved the play. She looked like one of my cats. If I didn't know I never would think she was in the wild just a several months ago. I have seen older ferals after years not act this way. I think it is REALLY positive. But I think Sandy is doing amazingly well. I would like to see her moving around more. So the toy acting more like prey. So "crawling" on the ground. Halting movements. Maybe "jumping in the air". Then Sandy Stalking it and then pouncing. Acting like a grasshopper, or mouse, or bird. Think how prey would act with a cat around. And try to get Sandy to stalk it then pounce. And run around a bit. In the video she was definitely engaged and loving it though which is great.
I would like to ask why Sandy ran to that door at the end of the video/play session. Did another cat come to the door?
What exactly happened right before she nicked your hand? She was probably amped up from the play session and if there was another cat at the door that could have caused her issues. Right after play just let her cool down before making any movements to her. It is better to just feed her and let her be.
Wow, I didn't know Sandy and Panda came from Georgia. Honestly, it is amazing how well they are doing.
So overall, I am really pleased to see you are getting them stabilized so quickly. I thought you could do it but this is faster than I thought. Keep up the good work to build those positive moments, build their confidence and trust, keep them separate, keep playing, keep feeding, keep loving. Give them your emotions so they can take them on and be more confidence. Staying in a routine for them. Basically just doing what you have been doing.
Please update us on how things are going. I think the going outside of the litter box has probably stopped. I think it was just the stress of you being gone and the negative encounters (keeping them separate will solve that). Try to keep cat and human stress to a minimum (I know easier said than done) and stay as calm and confident and loving around them. Keep playing (building confidence).
Sandy should be good to have another bed soon as well.
SO please let us know how things are going (any negatives) but I think you are about 75% of the way back to getting them to the place they were before. You are doing a great job stabilizing them. It is coming along faster than I expected. But there is more work.
It is really important to keep them separated so as not to get any negative emotions towards each other built up. Especially Rabbit and Sandy/Panda and Sandy with the resident cats. We need to convince them that the other cats are only positive. That there is not a threat - either physical or to their food and water etc. So we need to make every encounter as positive as possible and avoid any negative encounters. We have work and it is not going to be easy. But I do think it is possible. The key is to have the knowledge and the desire. And I think we have both. We do have to do everything we can to keep them separate for now. If Panda and Rabbit can build more trust between them then we could integrate Panda then work on getting Sandy there.
So let's just take it step by step. Let's get Rabbit back to normal and keep working with Sandy and keep them separated. And then when we get there let's get Sandy a new bed and then move forward.
Keep us up on how things are going and please ask anything anytime.
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I'm having some weird behavior with Sandy.
At times she will seem almost completely at ease with me in the room - sometimes even when I'm fairly close to her although I usually only get close to her when I'm giving her treats or food. She at times even sleeps pretty close to me although not on my bed when Im sleeping on it. When I bring in food, she will also even follow me or wait out in the open and is becoming less afraid of being in the open when Im here as well.
Sometimes though, when Im giving her treats, or playing with her with a shoe string (usually she's already exhibited behavior indicating that she wants to play before I do this.), even at a distance, just out of nowhere for seemingly no reason at all she will just flare in a fury of hissing, ears folding back, fur standing and pretty much goes 150% defense mode and ready to attack. She could literally be perfectly calm and seemingly sedated just a second beforehand and this is usually happening well after I've approached her (usually on the ground) or initiated play with her. When she does this I calmly talk to her and don't make additional movement, and she will usually scury to another corner of the room. She even swatted me once but it wasn't painful but she did look pretty fierce. She actually looks much more aggressive and fierce in these moments than she ever has when I've had to handle her in the past (like getting her down from the bathroom cabinets when I first brought her here, or taking her to the vet, or when strangers enter my room, ect) This is also happening even when Panda is absent from my room, meaning she's the only cat in here.
Is this something that will disappear with time? Is this just her personality? Is it something I may need to take additional action on?
As for Panda, its a night and day difference - he's relaxed alot, will follow me everywhere, even when I am cleaning. Stands below me like the rest of my cats when Im in the kitchen, and I can usually pet him and he usually seems to enjoy it.
At times she will seem almost completely at ease with me in the room - sometimes even when I'm fairly close to her although I usually only get close to her when I'm giving her treats or food. She at times even sleeps pretty close to me although not on my bed when Im sleeping on it. When I bring in food, she will also even follow me or wait out in the open and is becoming less afraid of being in the open when Im here as well.
Sometimes though, when Im giving her treats, or playing with her with a shoe string (usually she's already exhibited behavior indicating that she wants to play before I do this.), even at a distance, just out of nowhere for seemingly no reason at all she will just flare in a fury of hissing, ears folding back, fur standing and pretty much goes 150% defense mode and ready to attack. She could literally be perfectly calm and seemingly sedated just a second beforehand and this is usually happening well after I've approached her (usually on the ground) or initiated play with her. When she does this I calmly talk to her and don't make additional movement, and she will usually scury to another corner of the room. She even swatted me once but it wasn't painful but she did look pretty fierce. She actually looks much more aggressive and fierce in these moments than she ever has when I've had to handle her in the past (like getting her down from the bathroom cabinets when I first brought her here, or taking her to the vet, or when strangers enter my room, ect) This is also happening even when Panda is absent from my room, meaning she's the only cat in here.
Is this something that will disappear with time? Is this just her personality? Is it something I may need to take additional action on?
As for Panda, its a night and day difference - he's relaxed alot, will follow me everywhere, even when I am cleaning. Stands below me like the rest of my cats when Im in the kitchen, and I can usually pet him and he usually seems to enjoy it.
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Your first paragraph tells me a lot. There is A LOT of trust between you. So we have that strong base to work from and it tells me Sandy is going to be fine with you.
Now to the sudden changes. Really try to focus on what you may be doing right before she flares up. So, I think you mentioned you were low. BUT sometimes cats see change (this is not how you normally approach her) so she gets more cautious because it is a change in behavior. Or maybe your movements are a little different that she may misinterpret. Things like that. If you can get video that could be very helpful.
NOW, she is choosing to "scurry to another corner" so she is choosing to flee rather than fight so that tells me she doesn't want to hurt you so it is not a real serious threat in her eyes. AND the fact you calmly talk to her and not pursue her etc shows her you do not mean to be a threat. SO you are doing the EXACT RIGHT things.
I am guessing there is just something (a movement, a position, a look, etc) that she is mis-interpreting but this will go away as her trust builds to 100%. It still can happen of course (a mis-interpretation) in the future but it should be a non-event because she'll know you lvoe her and don't mean her any harm.
So I personally see this as normal with a feral and given the fact she doesn't hurt you etc tells me that she is just a bit skittish still and just needs more time to build that trust. And that trust is high in my eyes given all the things you mention in the first paragraph. I believe you are way ahead of where I ever thought you would be with Sandy. So I am not worried about it. Just respond the way you have by de-escalating the situation and not pursuing her etc. I know you will continue to build trust with her. I am not at all worried about how you interact with her. Just keep letting her know your love for her.
Panda is an amazing story. You have done an amazing job with him. What we need to do with him is make sure that Rabbit and Ginger get to trust him (Panda). Given Panda's easy nature we can do that. It will take effort but Panda doesn't want to harm anyone so we need to tech Rabbit and Ginger that he is not a threat. It just takes effort and time but I am highly confident we will get them together. So when you are ready for that we'll work on that. But I know you have a lot on your plate right now.
So just keep doing what you are doing with Sandy. You have made great progress and are way ahead of where I thought you would be. Just keep building that trust with her with food, emotions, actions, and play when possible. Keep up the great work, you are doing fantastically with her!!
Now to the sudden changes. Really try to focus on what you may be doing right before she flares up. So, I think you mentioned you were low. BUT sometimes cats see change (this is not how you normally approach her) so she gets more cautious because it is a change in behavior. Or maybe your movements are a little different that she may misinterpret. Things like that. If you can get video that could be very helpful.
NOW, she is choosing to "scurry to another corner" so she is choosing to flee rather than fight so that tells me she doesn't want to hurt you so it is not a real serious threat in her eyes. AND the fact you calmly talk to her and not pursue her etc shows her you do not mean to be a threat. SO you are doing the EXACT RIGHT things.
I am guessing there is just something (a movement, a position, a look, etc) that she is mis-interpreting but this will go away as her trust builds to 100%. It still can happen of course (a mis-interpretation) in the future but it should be a non-event because she'll know you lvoe her and don't mean her any harm.
So I personally see this as normal with a feral and given the fact she doesn't hurt you etc tells me that she is just a bit skittish still and just needs more time to build that trust. And that trust is high in my eyes given all the things you mention in the first paragraph. I believe you are way ahead of where I ever thought you would be with Sandy. So I am not worried about it. Just respond the way you have by de-escalating the situation and not pursuing her etc. I know you will continue to build trust with her. I am not at all worried about how you interact with her. Just keep letting her know your love for her.
Panda is an amazing story. You have done an amazing job with him. What we need to do with him is make sure that Rabbit and Ginger get to trust him (Panda). Given Panda's easy nature we can do that. It will take effort but Panda doesn't want to harm anyone so we need to tech Rabbit and Ginger that he is not a threat. It just takes effort and time but I am highly confident we will get them together. So when you are ready for that we'll work on that. But I know you have a lot on your plate right now.
So just keep doing what you are doing with Sandy. You have made great progress and are way ahead of where I thought you would be. Just keep building that trust with her with food, emotions, actions, and play when possible. Keep up the great work, you are doing fantastically with her!!
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I'm not really sure what happened with Sandy but she has really seemed to shut down. She's gotten much more distant and no longer eats if I'm anywhere near her food and wont respond to play. She will play with Panda still atleast but she's distanced herself from me. Any sort of movement I make gets an alarmed response from her. Panda on the other hand seems like he couldn't be happier. He's super energetic and basically charging through the place playing with my other cats.
I'm still softly talking to Sandy and keeping distance. I've been half wondering if I should position her food so she has to come near me to eat or if there is anything else I should do differently.
I'm still softly talking to Sandy and keeping distance. I've been half wondering if I should position her food so she has to come near me to eat or if there is anything else I should do differently.
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Hmmmmmmm. That is odd. Did anything happen? Workers in the house? Etc?
How are your emotions when you are with her? Do you feel more sad, or cautious or "different" when with her? A lot of times when we start worrying they pick up on it and sense it then get more cautious since we are not the same as always?
It is possible she is missing Panda as well since it seems like he is more out and about and may have the scents of the other cats on him (which is ultimately positive BUT could cause near term issues).
Just do everything you have been doing with Sandy. Stick to the routine. Feed her in the same place at the same time. Act normally around her. Talk softly with her. Keep using food to build trust. Watch how you play with her but keep trying to play. See how she responds. If she is scared just stop the play. Hang out but don't force anything. I am guessing the change of Panda being away is probably causing the change.
There is some change she is not liking. Just make sure you are yourself with her, let her know you love her. You have a bond with her so though she may question it possibly at times that trust is still there. She will adapt and realize the love you have for her.
How are your emotions when you are with her? Do you feel more sad, or cautious or "different" when with her? A lot of times when we start worrying they pick up on it and sense it then get more cautious since we are not the same as always?
It is possible she is missing Panda as well since it seems like he is more out and about and may have the scents of the other cats on him (which is ultimately positive BUT could cause near term issues).
Just do everything you have been doing with Sandy. Stick to the routine. Feed her in the same place at the same time. Act normally around her. Talk softly with her. Keep using food to build trust. Watch how you play with her but keep trying to play. See how she responds. If she is scared just stop the play. Hang out but don't force anything. I am guessing the change of Panda being away is probably causing the change.
There is some change she is not liking. Just make sure you are yourself with her, let her know you love her. You have a bond with her so though she may question it possibly at times that trust is still there. She will adapt and realize the love you have for her.
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I was a bit calmer than normal with her as Im usually pretty cautious around around her. She seems to be slowly coming back around. She completely stopped playing with me for awhile but out of nowhere I found her sleeping right under my chair while I was sitting on it - and she normally does not come this close to me unless I have food. Last night I initiated play when it looked like she wanted to play - she was extremely cautious but she did play for a short while from a good distance until she started to seem too uncomfortable and stopped. When I lay down on my bed she seems alot more at ease and will also lay down and look at me and slowly blink which I also respond with slow blinks, almost like talking to her. Another thing I notice is she has taken to my clothes as her literal bed. She likes to sleep on my shirts or clothes and play with them when they're present. She seems to be alot more at ease when Im sitting or laying down and usually wont hesitate to move around as much as she used to but she gets very cautious if I start moving.
I've been talking to her more and more lately, slow blinking whil calmly speaking to her. sometimes she will slow blink back, sometimes she will just stare, or she will just close her eyes and lay on my clothes and fall asleep.
Update: While playing with the string, she caught it and when I tugged it back it got caught on her claw and she hissed and jumped back and hid.
Right now as Im typing this she's actually being fairly playful with Panda, thats kind of another thing, she has been hissing less during play with him than she used to.
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So this is basically what happens sometimes when I'm on the ground or not in my chair / bed when I associate with her. I was giving her treats, she was very uneasy about my presence. I was about 4 - 5 feet away, video was zoomed in so you could make out her face.
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