I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[rubysmama]

Do you still have the baby gates up to Finn's room? Or is the door closed?

 

[Talien]

Trust me, I have thought of everyone in my life as a potential home for Finn, and I've come up empty. My nerves are actually much better when they're out, I just can't watch them interact- I have to busy myself doing something and then we're fine. It's when I hear the yelping that I go step in. It's always Charlie yelping - I don't hear aggressive noises, just defensive noises. And that breaks my heart.
However, I'm not willing to rehome Finn if this is simply a time issue. If there's a good possibility of them being able to work through this with time, I will do that. What I'm not willing to do is continue to try integrating two males who will always hate each other (or rather, one hate the other). That's no quality of life for any of us. I can give it another month or two, but I don't have another year of living like this in me.

There's definitely no hate there, if there was you would know it instantly. There would be hissing, growling, shrieking, and very loud chasing through the house with fur flying everywhere and each interaction would end with blood. There would be no calm talking to eachother through the door, they would be hissing and growling very loudly with laid back ears.

 

[Buffster7]

Do you still have the baby gates up to Finn's room? Or is the door closed?

Baby gate and shelving up, but door is closed unless I can be there to directly supervise, because Finn is Houdini. I learned through experience that he can scale and escape anything.

There's definitely no hate there, if there was you would know it instantly. There would be hissing, growling, shrieking, and very loud chasing through the house with fur flying everywhere and each interaction would end with blood. There would be no calm talking to eachother through the door, they would be hissing and growling very loudly with laid back ears.

I agree. What you hear is resident Charlie, who I think really wants to be friends with Finn. Last night when they were out, I was playing with a new toy with Finn. Charlie came over and joined us just to watch for a while. Then he moved away and laid down, relaxed. The minute his guard was down, Finn charged and attacked with zero warning. One minute he was playing with me, and the next he was on top of Charlie with Charlie crying. Then Charlie runs away to escape, and Finn chases him while trying to bite him. Charlie stops and hisses and smacks him, Finn circles and positions himself to pounce again, then I step in. This is how it goes every time. I don't hear shrieking from Finn, though, but he's not the one being attacked. What do you make of that behavior? I'm genuinely stumped and just trying to understand what's happening. I feel like a slow learner in the cat department.

 

[Talien]

I can't be 100 sure but from what you describe it sounds like they're still trying to work out who's the alpha.

 

[Buffster7]

I can't be 100 sure but from what you describe it sounds like they're still trying to work out who's the alpha.

You may be right. How exactly is dominance established - does there have to be a fight? Charlie already flees when Finn attacks, which appears to my human eyes to be acceding dominance to Finn. Is there something that typically happens that settles this between cats? I've tried searching google but..nada.

 

[rubysmama]

Baby gate and shelving up, but door is closed unless I can be there to directly supervise, because Finn is Houdini. I learned through experience that he can scale and escape anything.

I guess having a Houdini cat makes it harder.

Not sure if it will help, or if you've seem them, but Google brings up lots of "are my cats fighting or playing" videos that might be helpful.

are cats fighting or playing - Google Search

 

[Talien]

You may be right. How exactly is dominance established - does there have to be a fight? Charlie already flees when Finn attacks, which appears to my human eyes to be acceding dominance to Finn. Is there something that typically happens that settles this between cats? I've tried searching google but..nada.

That's another hard thing to nail down. For some Cats seeing another animal run away triggers their "hunt" instinct even if it's obviously not something they would eat and they now see that animal as prey, even if it's another Cat. If Charlie is actively running away from Finn it's possible this is what is going on.

 

[walli]

It's a good sign that Charlie is at Finns door.
Sorry you are going through this, but yeah I agree step back is good.
Is there any way you can modify the door so they can hang out with each other when your not there safely?

I think Finn would calm down without the door closed and Charlie and Finn can interact in a way that is safe for Charlie, they may even play through the door.
I have a toy on a string in between Joey and Walli, Joey plays with it, but Walli won't even come close to the door.

I have had to close the door, because Walli took backwards steps.

 

[Buffster7]

It's a good sign that Charlie is at Finns door.
Sorry you are going through this, but yeah I agree step back is good.
Is there any way you can modify the door so they can hang out with each other when your not there safely?

I think Finn would calm down without the door closed and Charlie and Finn can interact in a way that is safe for Charlie, they may even play through the door.
I have a toy on a string in between Joey and Walli, Joey plays with it, but Walli won't even come close to the door.

I have had to close the door, because Walli took backwards steps.

I have tried leaving the door open, but Finn is an escape artist and requires constant supervision when door is open. I have an extra-tall baby gate and 6-ft shelving behind it, and he easily jumps the baby gate and scales the shelving. I tried putting a baby gate over the top of the shelving to block the top exit, and when I turned around he had somehow gotten on TOP of that and was sitting looking for a way to jump down. I tried stacking baby gate on top of the extra tall one, and that leads a 9 inch space on top which he can get through. When I do leave the door open and observe from around the corner, he wails incessantly and gets agitated that he can see out but can't be out, and that's when he starts feverishly trying to scale and escape the room.

Unless I literally stand there and watch, I cannot leave the door open. So the only exposure he and Charlie get is when I am in the room with Finn (which is once or twice a day now that I'm at school); I can leave the door open then. But Finn is more focused on me and ignores Charlie when I'm in the room. So I'm not sure how much good this is doing other than giving them a break from each other. But are they acclimating or making progress? I don't know.

 

[walli]

I have baby gates on hinges and yes I understand the gap, I had to fill the gap with a thin piece of board, Joey is a climber too!

I will pray for you! looking back it's only been 2 months for all you have gone through, don't be discouraged! you have come a long way.

this is just a little setback, I know it's frustrating, dang it Finn, be a good boy!!

 

[Buffster7]

I have baby gates on hinges and yes I understand the gap, I had to fill the gap with a thin piece of board, Joey is a climber too!

I will pray for you! looking back it's only been 2 months for all you have gone through, don't be discouraged! you have come a long way.

this is just a little setback, I know it's frustrating, dang it Finn, be a good boy!!

Oooh, how did you get a piece of board up there without damaging the door frame? If I could figure out a way to cover that space up, I could try this!
Thank you for those prayers - love them, want them, will receive them!

I have hope today. I just left Finn's room and the boys actually sniffed each other through the gate. Charlie really does want to be friends, if we could just get Finn to come around. Today Charlie was up on his back legs with his front legs on the shelving - I've never seen him do that before! That got Finn's attention, so they went nose-to-nose for several seconds. Not long after that, Finn tried to scale the shelving, and I had to leave his room to start studying. Once I closed the door, both boys are calling to each other through the door. Charlie came and rubbed against my legs like he does when he's asking for food, then went to Finn's door. There's definitely no hate there. I just hope Finn can reach a point where he doesn't want to fight Charlie when he's out! I just needed a crumb tossed to me, and they did that today.

 

[Buffster7]

Oh, and I'm watching Finn. I saw him squat 3 times in his litter box with no output while I was in his room. But there are pee balls in his litter box since I cleaned it this morning. I cleaned it again and will check it before bed. If no pee balls, how long do I have to get him to a vet, anyone know? I have to leave the house tomorrow at 7am and cannot miss this test. It lasts 4 hours.

 

[walli]

I will take a pic of what I have, can you take a pic of the top part of your door
no rush, I seem to be pretty good at figuring out the containment issues!
just in case my thing doesn't work for you.

and yes definitely praying for you guys!!

If he had pee balls today not to worry, check later, he may have been trying to go poo

I have had to get Walli through urinary crystals by myself, no vet visits for her except extreme emergency, as long as there is some pee your ok

I won't be able to post pics till tomorrow, Going to Towne Council meeting with my Friend to talk about Feral Cats!!!

 

[Jcatbird]

Forgive me but I just gotta say it. Until Finn is cleared as being well, he could be grouchy. I think his urinary issue is still there. After your test tomorrow, call the vet. You said he has loose Pooh so I doubt he is straining to poo. Urinary stuff makes you feel like you need to pee all the time. You go but , don’t produce. It’s uncomfortable and will make it hard for him to be tolerant of Charlie. Solve this and things should change. Call the vet tomorrow. You may be able to get oral meds without going in. You could leave a message on their machine now, probably.

 

[Buffster7]

I think his urinary issue is still there. After your test tomorrow, call the vet. You said he has loose Pooh so I doubt he is straining to poo. Urinary stuff makes you feel like you need to pee all the time. You go but , don’t produce. It’s uncomfortable and will make it hard for him to be tolerant of Charlie. Solve this and things should change. Call the vet tomorrow. You may be able to get oral meds without going in. You could leave a message on their machine now, probably.

Yes, I do, too. Up until now he has been peeing a LOT. As in I'm cleaning out his litterbox 3x daily and filling up his litter genie every 2-3 days. Today is the first time I've seen him squatting and straining. It's not poop problems because he had just done that. so I wonder if the issue never resolved, or did it just return, and why? Most IMPORTANT question - So this is not an emergency that I need to rush to emergency vet tonight? I won't be home tomorrow til 1:20-2:00 and I worry about his little bladder filling up. I put a lot of water in his food tonight, so if I don't see a pee ball in his box before bed...emergency vet or no? Thank you - never a need to apologize for saying anything, I want to hear it!
I did call my vet this afternoon and let them know what was going on, but of course you just speak to the girl at the front desk and they say they'll get a message to the vet that I would like to move up the appointment, but who knows if he'll get it today or tomorrow. All these poor vets are so slammed all the time, never a quiet minute for them.

I will take a pic of what I have, can you take a pic of the top part of your door
no rush, I seem to be pretty good at figuring out the containment issues!
just in case my thing doesn't work for you.

Yes! I will try to post from my phone in just a minute. Thank you! I'm not a 'handy' person at all, so I envy your skills and welcome your suggestions and ideas!

I won't be able to post pics till tomorrow, Going to Towne Council meeting with my Friend to talk about Feral Cats!!!

That is wonderful - good luck tonight and let us know how it goes!

 

[Buffster7]

W walli

 

[Jcatbird]

I call until I get an answer. I want them to determine if it is emergency. If no. call back, call and tell them you are coming. It would be great if you could just pick up some meds. I expect the shot did not knock it put. A longer term of meds and Finn kept calmer if the doc can handle meds for that too. If they do not call, I show up if I get worried. They may not have an open spot but after knowing me long enough, they better fit us in. I’ll camp out and tell them so. lol

 

[Buffster7]

Just checked his litter box. He's definitely having issues. There is a tiny pee in there, but not enough. At least I know he isn't blocked (yet) but he took a very long time to excrete just a very little bit of urine. This poor guy can't catch a break. Think this is okay to wait until tomorrow, or is this an emergency vet thing tonight?

 

[Talien]

You should be ok to wait until tomorrow morning to make an appointment, unless you're going to not be able to get to sleep because you're worrying.

 

[Catzmeow]

I wanted to show you how I set up my wire shelving gate door with no damage to the frame. I did use taller shelves, the same height as my door. I used a baby gate. Stood the shelf right up to it and zip tied the shelf to it at the bottom but made sure the baby gate can still open. At the top I put a tension curtain rod and zip tied that shelf again to it. So that shelf was pretty secure. The other shelf I zip tied to the first one to act like hinges so I can get through to the room. I just used a clamp to hold the opening side closed. I hope that makes sense. We had no breakouts! I tried attaching pictures, hope it works!