Ibd / Digestive Issues

[LTS3]

Leroy has slightly soft poop today I'm thinking it's from the Raw Bites I started him back on two days ago. He's been eating the Raw Bites for years just for snacks. Last week I put him om NV canned rabbit just to see if that resolved the tummy gurgles. It didn't and canned doesn't satisfy Leroy's tummy So I put him back on the Raw Bites. Happy (and gurgly) tummy but soft poop The Raw Bites is chicken. It does come in rabbit but the pet store only seems to have the chicken one. I could ask for it to be ordered.

 

[LTS3]

Confirmed - Leroy has IBD Not only that but he has food allergies but that's nothing new. The eosinophils in the biopsy sample were indicators of a food allergen. That explains why Leroy has the soft poop after restarting on chicken raw Bites. No more chicken for Leroy. I'm still wondering if the Blue Ridge chicken "pushed" Leroy's digestive tract over the edge into full blown IBD. I don't recall Leroy having any vomiting et al before, even with the chicken Raw Bites snacks or chicken canned food.

Vet is hopeful we can manage with just diet and meds. He really wants Leroy on a hydrolyzed protein dry food and no treats but I'm Leroy rarely gets treats anyways and it's always freeze dried meat ones. I can stick with non-chicken treats. Vet is fine with me looking up info on raw diets. If it's just chicken Leroy can't handle, I can likely stick with the rabbit NV and use novel proteins with a pre-mix to add in and keep Leroy's tummy full

Leroy has to start on prednisone. I can't pick it up today but will try to do so tomorrow along with more B12. Can I put the pred pill in the same Pill Pocket with Cerenia? The Pill Pockets are chicken Would that affect the IBD at all? Is liquid pred easier to give?

 

[artiemom]

Oh, I am so sorry to hear this.. another baby with a chicken allergy.. man... ((hugs))

The Cerenia is on an empty stomach. The Pred should probably be taken with food, or after a meal.. sorry.. not certain about combining them. I would ask the Vet about that.. or the pharmacy. They should be able to help.

From what I was told, and perhaps most likely feel: If it states chicken flavor; then who the heck knows how much it is? I think it is a crap shoot.

How many pill pockets do you have? If it were me, I would try a couple, to see how he reacts.

I use a pill gun and empty gel capsules for all of Artie's meds. The pill is a good size--not huge but the size of an aspirin, or a tad larger. I give 1/2 pill.. but I do not know what dose Leroy will be on. I give a bit of water, as a chaser, in a syringe, immediately after pilling.

For a liquid suspension; I give the Cisapride... for Artie it is really easy.. but medicating him was so hard, at first. He has gotten accustomed to medicine and is now so easy to pill and give liquid. We also have our routine-- yes a learned routine...

Why the hydrolyzed dry food? Is Leroy a dry food eater? I know he eats raw and wet.. why change him over to dry? unless it does not come in a wet form.

I swear what tipped Artie over the sharp, high ledge was Blue Buffalo.. yup.. There is just something in that food. I heard them say at the pet store that it is a very 'rich' food, which some cats have difficulty adjusting to... wonder if it is the feathers which are used as filler???

Animal Digest is something you want to watch out for.. I think you already know that.

From what I can tell, it seems you caught the IBD in early enough stages. That is great.. should be easier to control.

The Cerenia will probably be until Leroy calms down, and probably discontinued daily, and just used for any flares; as I do.

It is great that you are only giving Leroy the Cerenia and Pred. I started out with a bunch of meds.. although, Artie was at the evil hospital... and was a lot worse than Leroy, and he had it a long time.

again,

And keep us updated...

 

[LTS3]

Attempting to use phone to type this...

Leroy's has never had dry food. He's never even seen it. Vet says there is a canned hydrolyzed option but we know the ingredients are crap. Vet says the smaller protein size would be easier to digest. I think digestive enzymes would help.

Leroy has had 2 pill pockets so far. Not sure if it affects him or not. Who knows, maybe it's causing the soft poop? I can get the salmon pill pockets.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I am so glad that you, LTS3 , and you, artiemom , have each other on this journey now, and BOTH using NVet, as well! As much as we care, there's nothing like someone who really really really gets it!

 

[LTS3]

Leroy just had a stinky cow patty I'm guessing it's from the chicken Pill Pocket I should have skipped the Pill Pocket and just dealt with any foaming The 1/4 Cerenia gets stuck in the pill gun opening Dinner was NV rabbit with vension / EZComplete. It's too early for his post-dinner snack.
Salmon Pill Pockets are made with chicken It's only salmon flavored There used to be a duck and green pea Pill Pocket but that was discontinued some years ago. It's still made for dogs but has an added hickory smoke flavor. I'm going to have to order something from Amazon.

 

[artiemom]

So sorry. Typing from phone.

While you are ordering from Amazon; you may want to look at the size 3 or 4 empty gel caps.

Put the Cerenia in the capsule;
Fit in pill gun, pop it in---no drooling or foaming. They really work great.
And do not have to worry about allergic stuff. I give a bit of syringed water after.

You can get a ton of syringes from ThrivingPets.com - no prescription needed. In use the 3 cc ones. 100 in a box.

 

[LTS3]

I added vegetarian size 3 capsules to my Amazon order. I also got two different non-chicken flavored pill doughs. We'll see which one Leroy likes best. I have plenty of syringes on hand.

 

[artiemom]

You may find the gel caps are so much easier to use; and Leroy may eventually get accustomed to his 'new' routine. It took a while for Artie, but now, he knows our morning, afternoon, and evening rituals; making things go so easily.

Artie was a bear, originally, but, with time, and consistency; he has become an awesome patient.

And you may not even have to use the pill pockets! Not adding additional junk into his diet, can only help..

You may also find that once Leroy stabilizes on the steroid dose, he may be able to tolerate the chicken pill pockets..personally, I would not chance it.. but he may be able to have a tiny bit of chicken, occasionally.. it depends on how severe his allergy is..

I never realized how bad a chicken allergy is; yet it is the prominent protein in all cat food.. I cannot get my head around that.. no wonder the allergy is so rampant.

When You have a chance; let us know how Leroy is doing today..

 

[LTS3]

Leroy had had allergies to food in the past but they weren't all caused by chicken, more like brand than protein.

Now I'm wondering if CET poultry toothpaste is bothering the IBD Leroy gets his teeth brushed every day. I don't use much toothpaste. I can't use the seafood flavored one because Leroy is allergic to that

I hope Leroy won't need the pred for long I know long term use can induce diabetes. I can handle diabetes but would prefer not to deal with multiple issues for one cat.

Leroy had more normal looking poop this morning. It was still soft but not patty-like. I want to restart digestive enzymes but at the same time I don't want Leroy to stop eating and have diarrhea again Snack last night was Emma's can of NV salmon. I need to stock up on more cans of food.

 

[artiemom]

Good to hear about the more solid appearing poop.. Go Leroy!!

From what I have discovered, EVERYTHING contains chicken.. either, hidden in small print on the label, as fillers, or even as a flavoring. Yes, the flavoring can contain chicken essence.. Makes me want to pull my hair out!!

Now that you mentioned the allergy to an ingredient, it makes more sense to me, as to why you are raw feeding. I get it.. I really understand.

Hate the food companies for all the junk they put in the canned food..

I am still giving Artie the Proviable probiotic. I think it is helping to keep things together, instead of loose. We get soft, we get smears, but not much diarrhea.. and it is usually from something stupid that I did..

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Leroy had more normal looking poop this morning. It was still soft but not patty-like.

Well, THAT is good news! YAY, LEROY! You're making us proud! Keep it up. I have poop fairies, and I'm NOT afraid to use them!

 

[LTS3]

It's methylprednisolone, not prednisone. Leroy gets 1 whole 4 mg tablet twice a day with food. I plan to give it right before feeding him. That way the food can help push the tablet down into the stomach. Can the methylprednisolone be compounded if needed? Or can I crush the pill and mix it with food? I manged to get the first tablet down Leroy today. I waited a minute to make sure he didn't spit it out and immediately fed him. The Cerenia Leroy faked swallowed and it just dissolved in his mouth and oozed out with the foamy saliva I expect some nausea tonight.

Pill Pockets for being made with chicken. Hopefully the two other pill doughs I have on order won't affect Leroy One is fish flavored and the other is liver flavored. I'm guessing the order will arrive early next week.

Vet wants a recheck in a few weeks. I have to respond to the secretary's email and also ask for a copy of the biopsy report.

I found soft poop in the litter box again. Most of it was formed but one was sort of a patty. Maybe Leroy will have normal poop tomorrow. I'm going to wait for normal poop before I add any supplements.

 

[artiemom]

From my phone:
FYI. Check to see if the liver pill pockets are not containing Chicken Liver. They do disguise ingredients in labels.

Not sure about the steroid. I would think the pharmacy at the vet's could compound it. Or you could get it from Wedgewood, mail order. I think Vet's secretary can help you with that. She is really knowledgeable.

For some reason, do not know why, mistake or what; but Artie is taking the Pred. I mentioned it to Vet. He is unsure what happened; however we are not going to change things up because he is doing ok on the pred. The mix-up happened when we began seeing this current Vet.

I was so "out of it" at the time, I did not notice the difference, until last week.

 

[LTS3]

The vet asked if pills were ok and I said yes I was at work and totally exhausted and even stepping outside the room didn't help minimize the loud distracting background noise. I'll give the tablets a go for now. I looked at the Wedgewood web site and the methylprednisolone can be compounded as chewable treats and as a liquid with numerous flavor options.

The one pill dough says "dried liver powder". It could be chicken or beef or anything. I'll try the fish one first.

 

[LTS3]

No go with the pill gun at all Leroy just hates the rubber tip on the back of his tongue. Maybe the taste or feel of it? I ended up dry pilling the prednisolone this morning, dropping the tablet right down into the throat, and followed it up with breakfast.

Pill Pockets

No poop this morning but I'm not worried. There was a large clump of pee in the box. It's from the extra water I added to Leroy's snacks last night.

 

[artiemom]

Oh, so sorry about the pill gun..

I do not use the 'better' pill gun. I use the regular old fashioned one from the Petstore-- not rubber tip. I did try the one with the rubber tip, but found it more difficult for me to get the gel cap through. I find the regular one is easier for both of us.

I know what you mean about the pill pockets! I had to really look at all the ingredients before I even thought about buying them. I read the ingredients and said, ...

I do not know if this will be of any help, but this is how I medicate Artie.

I sit in my upholstered chair. I am right handed so I put Artie in the back left corner of the chair; trapping him in there with my body. I reach around his head with my left hand, open his mouth with the middle finger and the thumb. I take the pill gun in my right hand, gently tapping his mouth with the tip--saying, "Open< Open".. then use my right thumb to help open his mouth. Once in the back of his throat, I shoot it in, close his mouth with my right hand.. just drop the gun on my lap.. then say, "Swallow, Swallow".. finally he will swallow, then I give him a bit of water.
Artie usually spits out the water. .. but I try..

When I am done, I shimmy in the chair, allowing him to jump and run away, saying,
"Good Boy! What a Good Boy, You are!" even if he is a monster.. I always praise him..

Now, it is second nature to him. I can just put him behind me, tap his mouth with the pill gun, aid the opening of his mouth- just a tiny bit.. pop it in, close his mouth, give him the water.. not much of a fuss..

Sure, he gets 'fresh' sometimes ~~ spitting out the pill. That is when I get a bit stern with him... but on the whole, he is very good about his meds.


Keep updating..

Now, the lactulose was a major battle to get in him.

The liquid suspension is really easy to shoot in .. He only gets 0.5 cc of that.

In the beginning, I discovered, that the quieter he is before giving him his meds, the easier it is to do..


One day without poop is ok.. Leroy has been pooping up a storm...

 

[Mamanyt1953]

You ladies are just phenominal. And you handle your cats so well! I read these threads and think, "If something like that ever happened to Hekitty, you might as well just shoot one of us, because there's no way we'd both survive." This is the cat who has sent me to the emergency room more than once when applying flea drops, for goodness sake!

GO LEROY! Take your meds, silly baby. They are good for you!

 

[artiemom]

You ladies are just phenominal. And you handle your cats so well! I read these threads and think, "If something like that ever happened to Hekitty, you might as well just shoot one of us, because there's no way we'd both survive." This is the cat who has sent me to the emergency room more than once when applying flea drops, for goodness sake!

GO LEROY! Take your meds, silly baby. They are good for you!

Oh Artie sent me to the ER, Once..
I was working, still had on my scrubs, white work socks, no sneakers. I also took the train home from Boston, so I was still in a state of grubbiness, and tons of germs..
I had just picked up Artie from his dental procedure. He had gotten a pain med before leaving the Vet. Artie was starving.. purring up a storm, circling my legs, feet as I was getting his food ready..

When Out of the Blue, Artie, while still rubbing up against my feet and legs, hauled off,
And Put a Fang in my FOOT!!! OMG On my instep. I could not yell at him, because he was flying high from the pain med.. Why he did that, I will never know..

I did not think anything of it. Went along as my usual after work routine..
Several days later, I noticed my instep was a bit itchy.. Ok.. did not think anything of it..

Then a day later, I realized my instep was red, itchy and swollen...
YUP... INFECTION...

Thank goodness it was my left foot. I had to drive myself into the ER, On a Friday night, driving INTO Boston... traffic.. OMG..

The ER took me in immediately.. they always do when it comes to animal bites, especially a cat. Imagine my horror when I had to fill out a Massachusetts Dangerous Animal
form because it was an animal bite!! Had to list my Vet, if Artie was vaccinated against Rabies, etc... I had to stress it was because Artie was just given pain meds and was starving from fasting...

Yup, they had to take a culture, to find out what was the infection, for the proper
antibiotic. This was the first year I had him.. I had only had him for 3 months...

That is when I knew Artie was going to be 'trouble"......

 

[LTS3]

Leroy took Cerenia just fine today but later spit out the prednisolone after holding it in his mouthI put it back in his mouth and he swallowed it. He got dinner right afterwards. Then he started crouching but in a weird way. He had his face flat on the floor He does seem in a bit of pain, even now 2 hours later. He's on the counter chair not quite meatloafing and doesn't seem to want to do anything. He was fine after the Cerenia but somehow after getting prednisolone, this weird crouching thing started. I can't find anything about odd behavior being a side effect of prednisolone. Most side effects occur after long term use. Leroy has only had 3 pills so far. Off to write an email to the vet.....